I have an aversion to rankings, but something caught my attention recently.
Indiana University’s Kelley School of Business is very highly ranked for undergraduate business. But while the university is great, it doesn’t fare as well as Kelley in the overall university rankings nationally. In a sense, Kelley is overachieving.
Business schools at UMich, Northwestern, Berkeley, etc. are all highly ranked, but the respective universities are highly ranked, as well.
Am I missing something, or is Kelley really kicking some tail? Are there other examples like this?
There are lots of engineering colleges that are much higher ranked than the overall university.
Purdue is one. Engineering rank for undergrad: 9. Overall university: 56. (USNWR)
@OhiBro In our out-of-state area we have several students who attend Kelley. They are all A students with high stats as they were direct admits to Kelley. Kelley has a much more stringent admissions criteria than Indiana University school of liberal arts/arts and sciences. When you ask these students what college they go to they say “Kelley school of business.” Their cars have Kelley Bumper stickers in the rear view windows. It’s like a status symbol to say Kelley. You would never know they go to Indiana University. Saying they go to Kelley recognizes their achievements as top students.
A lot of Universities have certain programs that outshine the reputation or rank of the University as a whole—take, for example, Syracuse Newhouse School of Communications, it is one of, if not the best communication schools in the country, with Alumni that read like Who’s Who in the television and news media fields, whereas the national rank of Syracuse U is in the top 50 to 60 range (USNewsWorldReport). This is an example of why you should look at the specific major or program within a university that you are applying to.
Ya. We didn’t realize how respected Carnegie Mellon’s SCS was ranked. It was perhaps better than son’s UG in that field, but I, for sure, didn’t know.
I wonder when that started? I’m an Indiana grad (Kelley) and we never said we went to “Kelley”. We were very proud of IU! Kelley was very highly ranked as an undergrad business school back then, too, but we tended to say we were a “business” major or “accounting, etc.”. I do get visits from both IU development representatives and Kelley representatives! Indiana also has one of the top music schools in the country.
@momofsenior1 Yes, Purdue! Interesting, in Indiana. Wonder if the state always intended for IU and Purdue to have their own specialties. I don’t think IU has engineering, does it?
Good example, @trackmbe3 . So how does a school get to the point of outshining its university? Wikipedia says Syracuse was the first to offer degrees in radio and TV, but it can’t always be a “first to” situation.
@MomofWildChild , FWIW, I polled my LinkedIn contact from IU. They have a business degree from “Indiana University - Kelley School of Business”. Somewhere between yours and trackmbe3’s statements ! 
@OhiBro <<so how="" does="" a="" school="" get="" to="" the="" point="" of="" outshining="" it’s="" university?="">> By pouring money into the program, hiring the best professors. You can see, for example, that many universities are seeing that their is increased demand by undergraduate applicants for undergraduate business degrees. And engineering degrees. So the universities reallocate resources (money, staff, facilities) to those areas to the detriment of the liberal arts college or other programs that are in less demand.
Look no further than your own state Ohio (assuming from your Ohi moniker)—Ohio State built a relatively new magnificent Fisher School of Business facility on North campus. Ohio State’s ranking in the National University section of USNewsWorld Report 2019 edition is #56. But it’s Fisher college of business ranking is #15. USNews even breaks down the ranking further by specialties. Ohio State ranks #5 in the country for Supply Chain Management/Logistics. Ohio State’s ranking for Engineering (for programs where highest degree is doctorate) is #30. And for Miami Ohio the National university ranking is #96. Yet Miami Ohio Farmer Business school ranking is #62 and it’s Engineering (for programs with highest degree as Masters) is #30.
Dodge Film School at Chapman University in Orange, CA is an example of a school within a university that is higher ranked than the University as a whole. #4 in nation for film undergraduate. Pretty sure it’s not the #4 overall university:)
Universities are a collection of many departments/schools/colleges. Very easy to have a few or many that shine above most in the nation. US News often looks at grad programs and uses a formula not all would agree with to determine its rankings- as do other sources.
The bottom line is whether you prefer a specific major/program or the entire undergrad academics to be of a certain ranking when choosing a good fit school. The overall experience or just in the major.
It is also easier to build on an already high reputation than to start low and try to break the ranks of the elite. It is not merely the money poured into a program but the already existing people who can draw others.
Finally, think in general terms. Comparable schools will offer the same degrees (eg bachelors only, up to masters, up to PhD) and rankings likely will only apply to schools within that. The number x+1 or even 5 or 10 school/program is similar to the x ranked school most likely. So much fun with numbers. Elite U is likely better than Podunk U- but that school could outshine Elite U in a field. But, the overall academic experience at Podunk U is not likely to be as good.
Short answer- confusing. Can manipulate many ways.
I’m also an IU School of Business grad, like @MomofWildChild . It wasn’t Kelley then, almost 40 years ago, but it’s reputation was still quite reputable (seems I remember it was like #12 in the nation), and it’s MBA program ranked even higher (maybe #5). It was not hard to get into back then either, a 2.0 GPA after 30 credit hours or so. I think it being more tough to be admitted isn’t the reason it’s highly ranked, although that may seem so, and create a lot of buzz nationally.
Jacobs School of music is ranked #2 in the nation.
Carnegie Mellon’s Schoool of Computer science was in a four way tie for first in many rankings when my son applied. CMU over all was in the low 20s. My son studied there, and SCS was amazing. He minored in physics and didn’t complain except for one lab TA.
I think this is more common then not but UIUC vs it’s engineering school is another example.
Someone asked about IU having engineering vs Purdue. It seems they have partnerships. Purdue doesn’t want another big engineering program in the state. There was an article about some politics for them to be the only large program in the state. Rose Holman is not a threat to them but IU is, if they started an engineering school.
So they agreed on this for informatics https://sice.indiana.edu/ and they have partnerships to make everyone happy. https://engineering.purdue.edu/BME/AboutUs/News/2019/Purdue-College-of-Engineering-and-Indiana-University-School-of-Medicine-announce-Engineering-Medicine-partnership
Regarding IU and Purdue – various specialty programs are spread to different public universities around the state. Purdue has engineering, IU does not. The architecture program is at Ball State. IU has Jacobs School of Music – a top music conservatory and ballet program. Ball State is known for its acting and theater program.
Then there are schools like “IUPUI” – Indiana University/Purdue University in Indianapolis – a large public university which offers both IU type and Purdue type programs.
@Midwestmomofboys. I didn’t even want to put down IUPUI. I never really got that. Are they satillete campuses? If so for whom?
It’s nice that the schools can work together. There was an article about Purdue being threatened by Rose Holman… Like really? I know Rose was working on some collaboration think it was business classes with IU when we were looking at different universities for engineering.
^^ No “they” are not satellite campuses. It is a large joint campus/facility in Indianapolis (neither IU or Purdue are in Indy) which serves that large city, full time employees who are also going to school and combines programs from both universities. It has excellent facilities.
However, at Iupui, you do get either an IU degree or Purdue degree. It’s sort of a satellite campus, but different too. They have freshman dorms there.
While there are no credible “rankings” for BFA programs in musical theater, the fact is that most of these programs have acceptance rates in the single digits, and many below 5%, and are extremely competitive. Further, some of the highly regarded and top BFA programs in musical theater are within universities that are not highly ranked otherwise. The theater world knows these are tippy top competitive college programs, but the name of the university isn’t necessarily the top “bumper sticker.”
This is far from unique. Especially when you look at large unis.
Kelley School of Business had 7,500 undergrads! This undergrad business school is larger than most private/LAC colleges. Probably one of the reasons it is so well known is that they have 200,000+ alums spread throughout the US and world.
Compare this to University of Michigan Ross School of Business which is very large public but “only” has 1,400 undergrads; WashU’s Olin School of Business has 763 undergrads.
@MomofWildChild. Thanks for the information. When driving from Chicago to Detroit I keep seeing their signs and never really got it. It’s great they can serve their communities.