Colleges where engineering majors must earn high GPA or compete for admission to their majors

At UCB, the reason why EECS and L&S CS are restricted majors is to prevent enrollment from overflowing department capacity, so non-majors should not expect it to be easy to get into CS courses.

See http://www.eecs.berkeley.edu/Policies/enrollment.shtml .

It is likely that getting into CS courses as a non-major can be difficult at other schools where CS is a restricted major.

It seems to be really just one class that may deviate at Virginia Tech for freshmen and is recommended. There may be some technical electives that could be used for different majors so may not be that big a deal. And VT only requires a 3.0 the first year to be guaranteed your choice of major. My husband is an engineer (but from CMU) and didn’t have a problem with the requirements or with Virginia Tech’s program. Neither did my son. But like everything, no school is right for every kid.

@Ynotgo, a non-major who wants to take CS classes will likely have more luck at a private than at a respected public.

^ Yup, that’s what we are hoping for.

Would that apply to schools like CMU, where the CS major is extremely difficult to get into (presumably because it is “full”)?

Seems like it would not be public versus private, but whether the major in question is difficult to get into because it is “full”, meaning that the department has little or no extra capacity to offer space in courses for non-majors.

Michigan State is this way, you are admitted into freshman and sophomore engineering classes, but you are not allowed to declare as an engineering major with full enrollment allowed into engineering classes at 300 level until you complete the 100 and 200 pre-reqs with I think it’s a 3.0 technical GPA. This can be done by mid-year sophomore year or by end of sophomore year.

@ucbalumnus – thanks for starting this thread!!

Maybe we could start a tally like te post regarding stats for ED/RD: http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19764517/#Comment_19764517

Direct Admit / No barrier/hurdle to Declare: Yes / No. If no, req’mts?

I am surprised thew websites are less than clear. We are interested mostly in EE & CS but enginerring guidance is helpful in any event – or how to find out.

I think RPI, RIT, Upenn, USC, are yeses - direct entry - anyone have different info?

VA Tech - no & need a 3.0 to declare in engineering.

Stanford : No
MIT: No
Case - I am a little unclear - anyone have a link?

Rice - yes - declare spring of freshman year

Tufts - think no barrier but maintain a C- in core courses (at least for CS)

Northwestern: yes?? unclear
Northeatern: yes?? unclear – maintain a 2.0

Re #46

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/math-computer-science-majors/1857648-cs-major-impaction-and-secondary-admission-requirements.html lists CS secondary admission requirements, although it does not list other majors or whether direct admission is available (and, if so, whether applicants rejected from the major may be admitted to general undeclared status).

USC - Apply and get direct entry to specific engineering major and once accepted to Viterbi (their Engineering school) into that major (EE,CS,Aero, BioMed,Civil, Mech, etc) it is easy to move around within engineering. You must list engineering as your first choice major or you will not be considered at all for engineering. You can request a move into engineering from another school, but of course there are GPA/course requirements to meet before you do so. But certainly possible.

Our experience with UWashington - daughter applied to CS and was accepted as pre-science. Spoke directly to Director of Admissions who explained 97% are accepted pre major and then they apply to intended major soph/jr year. (Only 3% are direct admits - congrats to those that get offered that!) He said typical GPA to get into CS as a junior was 3.8 and was the most challenging major to get into. Decided that kind of pressure and risk not worth the OOS scholarship they offered. We feel getting the degree you want is important versus defaulting to second choice…my nephew (and Seattle native) didn’t get accepted into business program at UW until after junior year cause of of same factors, making it 5+ years to graduate.

UCLA - Apply to specific engineering major and get accepted or rejected. Go big or go home - CS acceptance rate is less than 8%. Son accepted (but went to USC), and it seems you could change between engineering majors (just a bunch of paper work like big schools have) not as easy as USC but possible. Virtually impossible to get into engineering from any other UCLA division.

Thanks @ucbalumnus - lots of good work and info here – http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/math-computer-science-majors/1857648-cs-major-impaction-and-secondary-admission-requirements.html
you are amazing!!

@CADREAMIN – your post is very helpful – the info re USC comports with what we have been told - it is really important for us – to get into desired major(s) upfront and have some flexibility to move around if desired within engineering/CS. I welcome other reports for schools with similar flexibility as USC (which is already High on our list!)

@CADREAMIN In 2015, about 12% of engineering students at UW were enrolled in engineering majors as freshmen. Some majors, like CS, admit about 20% of their annual cohort via direct freshman admission. Those who enroll at UW with “pre-engineering” status usually apply to their majors at the end of their freshman or sophomore year. Each major has its own requirements for admission, as outlined here:
https://www.engr.washington.edu/current/admissions/admitstats

@CA1543 PM me anytime - I have a CS major there now, a 2015 graduate, and another potential Trojan :slight_smile:

Been super happy with CS program there - his opportunities/internships are top end, and he and his peers will be starting the next big thing, I am sure :slight_smile: . One of the gals (that is still a student!) has already been funded millions for an incredible invention that you will read about soon. Great bunch of kids, solid program with complete flexibility. Frankly, that flexibility to get whatever you want to get out of college with relative ease is why they can charge the big bucks.

Not sure where this goes. DD was admitted to Santa Clara University as an undeclared arts and sciences major. But she took the engineering sequences anyway as a freshman. She switched to engineering with no difficulty the second term of her sophomore year, and also picked her engineering concentration at that time.

Some SCU students are direct admit to the engineering school.

Actually, the requirement for Virginia Tech is 2.0 to declare in engineering at the end of the first year; a 3.0 guarantees your choice of discipline. Some disciplines don’t end up accepting anyone below 3.0 because they are full.

And the problem with having CS, EE, and Computer Engineering starting coursework in the spring of the first year is that if you don’t have the 3.0 at the end of your freshman year you might not actually end up in CS, EE, or Computer Engineering. If you wanted to go into another major, but end up there because your first choice was full of people with a 3.0 or better, then you’re behind a class going into your sophomore year.

@CA1543 @CADREAMIN I second the plug for USC. Love that school! Older son graduated from USC Engineering in 2015. Lots of flexibility. The advising department was super helpful at getting him all the classes he needed at the times when he needed them, as he added a minor and had to work around inflexible ROTC classes every semester.

I think you may be able to come in to USC as “Undeclared Engineering” and declare a major later, probably by the end of freshman year. But, as you said, kids can also just direct-admit into a desired major. That is what son did, and he never changed.

Comp Sci is so popular that lot of highly qualified kids will probably apply. Resources within majors didn’t seem too limited at USC, but there are only so many spots available for the Viterbi freshman class overall. And, they will want to make sure they still have enough Mech, Chem, BioMed, Petroleum, Civil, Aeronautical, etc engineers, not just all Comp Sci majors.

Thinking ahead — I highly recommend the 6-week USC engineering summer study abroad program where they take about 40 USC engineers for classes in two different countries. (20 kids to each country, with two USC profs per group) Son got two required courses done plus traveled almost every week, because classes were only Mon- Thur. USC had set up some nice excursions for the kids. It was a good deal, especially since it can be hard to do study abroad as an engineer during the regular school year because of so many required courses. The experience was special and it helped him finish in four years. I am pretty sure that Comp Sci majors could do this, as they are part of Viterbi. There was a simple application for the program. It was offered for summer after sophomore or junior years.

The spirit of USC is contagious. I had a great time on my visits there. Met some very nice parents and kids.

Yes, Santa Clara University offers direct admit to engineering. Daughter is CSE (Computer Science Engineering) there. CSE is engineering aspects of software and hardware as well as the mathematical foundations of computation. There is also Computer Science within Mathematics and Computer Science Division. As Thumper1 said, moving majors at SCU is possible, with engineering and business being the two schools that may be more challenging to move into from another one (like everywhere it seems).

@allinsh1, If you are not currently a Virginia resident, Virginia Tech was probably not the best choice for your family to begin with (despite being a VT grad) if you are concerned about GPA issues (and OOS cost). 3.0 is not a crazy GPA to get there if you apply yourself and have a general aptitude for engineering. My HS slacker son had a 3.9 + after freshman year because he finally applied himself ( and also traveled with VT in a very competitive club sport at the same time as he was an all state athlete in high school). He couldn’t even get into VT Engineering (rightfully so) initially because of his high school grades but quickly moved into it after doing very well his first semester . He was an undergrad TA for three semesters. Virginia Tech is the right choice for many kids and I highly recommend it ( as I do my other kid’s school UVa- also great opportunities for engineers from there and a smaller program). There are programs for every kid out there. Some will not make it through an engineering curriculum or find it’s just not for them and will move on and do something different. It’s all good.

@ailinsh1 I don’t think that being behind just one class going into sophomore year at VA Tech is that big of a deal. One could probably catch up with a summer course . And, a 2.0 to declare engineering actually seems pretty fair and kind of low. When my son came out of his partying first freshman semester at USC with around a 2.2 GPA, we were freaking out that he would never graduate or get a job…and he was going to lose his full ROTC scholarship…Thankfully he matured a little with each followon semester. I don’t think a 2.0 shows mastery, even at a school that might have grade deflation.

Regardless, it would be disappointing for any kid to not get a desired major after taking all of the prerequisite classes for a whole year.

What is the overall average GPA for treshman engineers at VA Tech? That would give an indicator of how hard it might be to get a 3.0 and lock a desired major. UVA has a similar process for competing to get a major at the end of freshman year.

@deb922 Lehigh is also one of my favorite engineering schools. They are flexible with majors, as you said, and they seem to take care of their engineering students well, I could tell that the professors really want to know and help the students. When second son was applying this year, we personally met more professors at Lehigh and Bucknell than anywhere else at the too many 21 schools he applied to. Ironically, smaller schools like that can often be more accommodating than larger ones. ucbalumnus explained his resources allocation theory on why that is.

I am a Virginia resident. I just didn’t worry about average freshman GPA going in about what VT or UVa had for engineering. I figured they would work it out (or not ) and luckily both did very well. Average GPA or GPA of others in their engineering schools was irrelevant as it was their individual efforts that got them into their desired majors.