Colleges with four year guarantees and their actual four year graduation rates

Parents Forum
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<p>Colleges with four year guarantees (that you will not be prevented from four year graduation due to class unavailability, though you have to meet conditions like choosing courses that will make progress in your major, etc.) and their actual four year graduation rates:</p>

<p>University of Minnesota, Twin Cities:
U</a> of M: Four-Year Graduation Plan
Actual four year graduation rate: 54%</p>

<p>California State Polytechnic University, Pomona:
Graduation</a> Pledge | Academic Programs | Cal Poly Pomona
Actual four year graduation rate: 12.5%</p>

<p>California State University, Fresno:
California</a> State University, Fresno - Catalog
Actual four year graduation rate: 13.7%</p>

<p>Iowa State University:
Four</a> Year Graduation Program : Office of the Executive Vice President and Provost
Actual four year graduation rate: 37.6%</p>

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<p>Where are you getting those graduation rates from?</p>

<p>The Cal Poly number looked suspicious to me, so I checked the Common data set -
<a href=“http://www.calpoly.edu/~ipa/publications_reports/cds/cds1011update012811.pdf[/url]”>http://www.calpoly.edu/~ipa/publications_reports/cds/cds1011update012811.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>I did the math and came up with a 27% 4-year graduation rate for the cohort entering fall 2004; the 2003 cohort had a 25.2% 4-year graduation rate. That is roughly double the number you claimed.</p>

<p>And the Cal Poly web site reports a 30% 4-year graduation rate for students entering in 2005:
[Cal</a> Poly Graduation Rates Reach All-Time High](<a href=“http://www.calpolynews.calpoly.edu/news_releases/2009/November/grad_rates.html]Cal”>http://www.calpolynews.calpoly.edu/news_releases/2009/November/grad_rates.html)</p>

<p>There’s a chart that shows trends at Cal Poly over 20 years; you’d have to go back to the 90’s to find a graduation rate as low as the one you cited:
<a href=“IR Home - Institutional Research - Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo”>IR Home - Institutional Research - Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo;

<p>(By the way, it was a huge red flag for me to see you post numbers without a citation to your source. )</p>

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<p>Keep in mind that when you are talking about major flagship schools, a lot of students aren’t really there “full-time”. They may be taking 12 credits or whatever, but they consider themselves part-time and probably have a full time job as well. Also, if you shift majors at any of these schools, you have pretty much eliminated your chance of graduating in 4 years. There are very few very large Universities that have good 4 year graduation rates. If you are really that concerned about it, go to a smaller LAC.</p>

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<p>Even if those numbers are real, there are reasons other than availability of classes why entering freshmen don’t graduate in four years. All but the most-selective publics admit students who are not truly prepared for college. Many require remedial work that doesn’t count toward graduation requirements, and many simply find the work too challenging and drop out.</p>

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<p>annasdad—are your high schools really that bad that you see “many” that require remedial work?? I RARELY see that happening around here and even then it isn’t really “remedial” more like kids taking calculus that most had in high school because their high school didn’t offer calculus.</p>

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<p>Steve - yes, that bad. Also consider that most non-flagship public schools admit a significant portion of students with test scores well below the 50th percentile, and then require those students to do college-level work to graduate. Many of the kids who go to these schools would be better-served by a couple of years in a CC, IMO.</p>

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<p>annasdad–I don’t see that happening around here, thankfully.</p>

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<p>Cal Poly *Pomona<a href=“not%20San%20Luis%20Obispo”>/i</a> is the one referred to in post #1.</p>

<p>The four year graduation percentage numbers were from the common data sets on the schools’ web sites.</p>

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<p>I know at least for Cal Poly Pomona the 4 year pledge only applies to kids that are fully ready for college work, which means they are ready for college english and college Calculus. Many of the kids entering are not at that level (need around a 650 english SAT and to pass a math test that is ~ to a 650 math SAT) so they can’t use the pledge. It is also a commuter campus so many kids don’t carry full loads.</p>

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<p>Most of the CSU’s are commuter campuses; and I think you would find that most of the students are working and attending school at the same time. So even if they are technically enrolled as full time students, they tend to take lighter loads (12 units vs. 16-18) – and they have to schedule classes around their other obligations. Additionally the increases in tuition and overall cutbacks at the CSU’s (instructors laid off, departments closed, fewer courses offered) have made the situation a lot worse.</p>

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<p>A very large percentage of college freshmen overall do require remedial course work in English composition and/or math. Although the most motivated students at most high schools are likely fully ready for college level work, most high schools do not really have strong minimum standards for college-bound students. Also, the colleges themselves often do not do enough to encourage full preparation, such as suggesting that taking only three years of math (ending at algebra 2, not precalculus or calculus) is acceptable for admission.</p>

<p>It is a rather wasteful use of resources when colleges have to devote faculty time for courses that students should have learned in high school, reducing the amount of faculty time for true college level courses.</p>

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<p>However, this means that a student who does not fit the profile of a typical “will graduate late” student (needing remedial courses, taking only 12 units per semester, etc.) is more likely to graduate on time than the four year graduation rate suggests. The four year graduation guarantees are intended to assure such students that they will not be involuntarily graduating late due to classes being full or unavailable (the guarantees usually involve course waiver or substitution of an available course in the degree requirements, or the school paying the tuition for any extra semester needed).</p>

<p>Higher tuition may actually have a positive effect on on-time graduation rates, since the higher extra cost is an additional deterrent against taking an extra semester. (However, if financial aid is inadequate, higher tuition can prevent some students from graduating at all.)</p>

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<p>ipeds has 19% for Cal Poly Pomona’s class starting fall '04.</p>

<p>btw: ~50% of ALL CSU frosh (systemwide) require remediation. At some campuses, it’s 90% (mostly English, I’m guessing).</p>