Thanks for the great advice above. We want D to be happy above all else and are so grateful she found some schools that got her very excited about going to college, but there is a part of us that is weighing the concept of going to the best school you can get into (which is also a great fit) vs. one that is mostly a great fit, but may not give you the same opportunites once you graduate. We’ll work through this. I think that as long as the “safety” will be intellectualy enriching and their employment and grad school placements are good, we are very open to it. Thanks again!!
I envy all of you who had kids who “fell in love” with schools they visited. We’re in the middle of the tour cycle for kid #2 and so far neither has had any emotional reaction to any of the schools they have visited and between them that’s about 22 schools (so far). For the oldest, he ended up getting into a bunch of comparably great schools and had the hardest time picking one because they were all good but he didn’t have an attachment to any and in that situation it’s easy to start focusing on relatively minor “cons” for any of them. Decision came down to the last day you could declare, even after a couple last minute trips to final contenders to try and seal the deal. He’s totally happy where he ended up though, but it’s not like he knew it was right for him going in. So I’d say if you’re kid has a strong feeling about a place, count yourself lucky…
As for them falling for safeties, research a bit before you tour and as a rule why tour to a school you don’t respect enough to be comfortable if that’s where they want to go? The advice I would add on safeties is research which ones give great merit aid. Almost none of the schools on my eldest’s reach and match list offered merit aid and we got so used to hearing in the info sessions that schools didn’t offer it that we wrote it off. So when he got offered substantial merit scholarships from a couple of his safeties it was a complete surprise and made considering them tempting (though alas he didn’t pick them). For our #2 I don’t see why any safety should make the final application cut if they don’t offer merit aid (or are already cheaper because they are in-state public schools) when there are comparable choices that do. You only need a couple safeties anyway. It’s a great consolation prize if you end up at a safety to save substantial money (and as an incentive to the student if you can afford it potentially apply it toward graduate or professional schools if they later continue their education).
You should search for @rockvillemom’s threads. She had children at both Wake Forest and Elon, and found no difference in employment or grad school outcomes for her kids or their friends.
@citivas Thank you. Every school we saw I researched thoroughly and thought was very respectable. I think what I was trying to say is that there are many factors in choosing a school and sometimes teenagers are looking at the bells and whistles and surface and parents need to consider all the facets including future job placement etc. As I said, if the “safety” provides a good education and has good outcomes then we are more than open to it. For the record, my husband and I really, really liked Elon too.
@citymama9 - I am not surprised you all liked Davidson and Richmond. Richmond is a beautiful school. Some parts look like a ski lodge. Davidson does have a reputation for grade deflation but that did not deter my daughter. My daughter and I visited about 10 schools. She loved Richmond and Davidson. She ended up attending University of Southern California but it was very close.
As far as Richmond, they have a huge endowment (about 2.5 billion; that’s as much as a school like Michgan State with 10 times the student body) for their student body size. They also have a very good study abroad program you might want to look into. Little surprised you had multiple panhandlers bother you on Cary Street. My daughter and I are from Richmond and have been there many times and never been bothered.
“I envy all of you who had kids who “fell in love” with schools they visited.”
Can be a double edged sword, especially if the dream school or two is a reach. Some kids set their minds on a particular school and envision themselves there and then if they don’t get in, it is a major letdown.
We visited Kenyon, Denison, and Oberlin this summer and S19 really liked Kenyon and Denison. They are on the list for sure. Oberlin wasn’t his cup for tea so it’s the first one scratched off of our tentative list. My plan is to only visit matches and safeties and make sure he finds enough of those that he likes. If he falls is love with a safety, that would be terrific. We have a short list of reaches and none of them track interest so we will not visit. I think that also protects him from falling in love with a long shot. We have a friend who took her child to a bunch of reaches this summer and he loved them all (of course) so now he can’t come up with any matches. No match schools for him now seem “good enough”. That’s a problem!!
After acceptances come in for S19,we can go back to accepted student days and he can fall in love all he wants since there’s no longer a risk of being rejected. So far, though, we are preaching that he can find his place at lots of schools and he will have choices in the end as long as we are wise about his list.
@homerdog Can you describe your Denison experience? We plan to go to Ohio at some point this year. Thanks.
@citymama9 absolutely. I wrote up a good description of our Denison visit on the Parents of 2019 kids thread back in July. I don’t have time now to find it and copy it here but I will do that in the morning. Check back!
Few years ago with D had considered Case Western, well ranked in major and once admitted could study any major was biggest draw. D didn’t care for the campus (I liked it) and crossed it off (not enough trees and grass for her taste). Received a nice invite for another full day visit and since her first choice school getting into major was a long shot, I insisted she re-visit campus (there’s definitely trees and grass). Learned a ton about applying to colleges that day. Really met a lot of people. I loved it. Financial aid session freaked D out. Sticker shock! Didn’t matter how much I talked about net price, refused to apply. D decided that day she wanted the state school with or without her major, she would find a way to make it work.
@citymama9 Here are my notes on our Kenyon and Denison visits back in July-
Kenyon.
Wow. All I can say is wow. S19 loved it and so did I. The town is non-existent with one coffee shop and one restaurant but that didn’t matter to S. The campus was beautiful and tucked into the woods. I suppose a student who has been to summer camp might think it’s a bit like that, but S19 hasn’t been away from home much so he felt like it was the perfect size. He thinks he would like to be in this sort of oasis for his four years of college. And I feel good about all of the attention doted on the students. Freshmen get an academic advisor from day one. The students we spoke to were all especially close to their advisors (one called hers her second mom) and they gave concrete examples of how they help guide them in every part of their time at Kenyon.
The students on the panel were humble but bright and accomplished. They really love their school. The dean talked about how Middle Path is like a moving student union and students really enjoy each other. One of the students on the panel said that she has to figure out what NOT to do each weekend because there’s so much going on. She is a track athlete and she said her friends come painted in purple to cheer her on just for her one event. She felt like that was an example of how kids really like and support each other. There were kids from Virginia, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Colorado visiting while we were there. S19 liked that he would meet kids from all over.
Seemed like so many of the majors were strong. The commitment to writing makes its way into all of the majors. They have mentoring and job shadowing programs with Kenyon alums as well as study abroad programs pretty much anywhere you would want to go.
Overall, it’s on the list for sure. I don’t see that changing.
Denison.
S19 loved it too! It’s much more of a safety for him according to our Naviance (even without SAT scores quite yet). The campus is set on an arboretum and has a 400 acre bio reserve where the kids can run and hike. The campus felt tighter than Kenyon and it’s perched up on a hill. It felt much different but very pretty as well. The town is bigger than Kenyon’s town and we ate at two of the restaurants while there. Both were yummy. Getting to town is a two block walk so I bet kids go there pretty often. Our tour guide decided on Denison over Chicago. The classes are smaller at Denison and he felt like the teaching was just as good. He just wanted a more balanced experience and, after overnight visits to both, thought Chicago too intense. He is a comp sci/philosophy double major. Just had an internship at Amazon. I’m a little concerned about career services there. Our tour guide said they’re great. They will give you lists of alums, etc., but it seemed like the advisor role wasn’t quite as involved as at Kenyon. It also seemed like a larger percentage of Denison kids went straight to grad school vs. Kenyon. Need to look into all of that. We also learned that kids go to Columbus quite often on the weekends so I don’t think the student body has quite the community feel that Kenyon does.
S19 definitely wants to keep it on the list.
@citymama9 Since I wrote the above post, I’ve looked more into Denison placement office and it is indeed impressive. I don’t have any worries about that. I think S19 could fit in with the kids there and maybe he would like going to Columbus for fun sometime. I’m still not 100% sure about the intellectual nature of the school and S19 is craving that a bit. Since we didn’t have an info session there, we would definitely visit again to see a presentation and to see kids on campus. Curious to hear what you think.
And I totally agree with your point that the kids are only 16 1/2. We’ve got some time. S19 seems to be changing all of the time…
@BuckeyeMWDSG Since Case Western offers merit aid, I wouldn’t dismiss it on cost alone versus a state school. My eldest applied at the last minute because Case emailed him that they would waive the admission fee and didn’t require any supplemental information so it was a few clicks in the Common App and done. But they were one of a couple that when they accepted him offered a significant merit (non-financial-based) scholarship that reduced the total cost (including room and board) by over 40%, making it cheaper than our state college.
@homerdog Great reviews!
@citymama9 - Regarding Elon, while it is a great school, it is good to keep in mind (as you mentioned) the typical academic profile of Elon students compared to the other schools that you visit, once your daughter gets farther along with her testing and junior/senior year school performance. For example, Elon’s 75th percentile ACT score is 29, compared to 32 for UR and 33 for Davidson. If your daughter ends up with scores and grades in the UR/Davidson range, you should consider whether she would be happier at those schools compared to the Elon Honors Program. We had similar experience with my daughter who had been accepted and turned down places in two Honors Programmes.
One really great boy from our school is a junior there. He is just a friendly, involved, smart kid and is loving it.
@londondad I agree. But that’s the difficulty in finding safeties for a high stats student. If S19 ends up in the 75th percentile range for Davidson, then could he be happy at a school with lower stat kids? We are not looking at Elon but have other LAC safeties in mind if he’s turned down at the highly selective LACs in his list. The question has been asked many times on CC- where does a high stats student fit if their matches/reaches don’t come through for him? Looking for schools that are safe bets where he will find kids like him isn’t easy. One has to find schools where high stats kids are being sought out by the AOs and that are appealing to those students. Ideally, the school would have a few years under its belt of getting kids like that to matriculate. Then, S19 would find kids like him on campus even if they are the very tippy top of the students. I don’t think that’s the case for Elon and that’s why we aren’t considering it.
We are finding that many honors programs have lower stat kids than S19. If an honors program has low-ish cut offs then it still won’t feel the same as going to a school where S19’s stats fit with the general population. Not sure about Elon’s honors program. I just know from our GC that Elon wouldn’t fit S19 as well as some other safeties.
@homerdog - You are right. Everybody needs to find a couple of safeties where he/she would be happy and are affordable. If they are then fortunate enough to get accepted a number of matches plus safeties, it then becomes an individual decision whether to take the safety (typically with merit money plus some sort of honors or fellows programme) or go with the stronger academic school. My son took the former option and my daughter the latter.
@civitas I still think I’ve learned the most about college applications, financial aid and other helpful things about being the parent of a college kid from Case. They were even the first ones to tell us about the competitive nature of D’s first choice major program at the state school she wanted. The advisor asked what other schools she was looking at and we learned all about it then. Ironically, I think without that first visit we took on a whim because we happened to be in Cleveland D would never have been able to get into her major at the other school. It was still early in hs so she started figuring out ways to differentiate herself from other applicants. It’s the reason I always recommend to really visit Case. It’s one of the few college visits (particularly the full day visits) where one can walk away feeling they learned some very valuable information.
To answer your question @homerdog a high stats student in the top 75th percentile can find like minded students and can thrive at a school with less achieving students.