Some of the article are old or behind paywalls, but here’s a snip about the new athletic dorms at Louisville (the school that, IMO, breaks the most NCAA rules):
"The students will live in the residence hall in which 63 of the 128 beds will remain within the NCAA requirement of no more than 50% of beds being occupied by student athletes. "
So the schools can put the athletes in super nice dorms, but have to reserve half those beds for non-athletes.
" Starting in 1996, all residence halls housing athletes had to be at least 51 percent filled with students who weren’t athletes"
“In January, NCAA schools passed a package of reforms that included the elimination of all athletic dorms by Jan. 1, 1996. Because there are only approximately two dozen athletic dorms around the nation, that ruling doesn’t look like it will affect many schools on the surface. But the NCAA also passed a pair of bylaws, which, after you cut through the five-dollar wording, state that no dorm can have athletes as more than 50 percent of its occupants.”
So if the dorm is big enough, all the football team can live there, but there has to be another 135 beds for non-athletes. At the big schools I know of, it effectively spread the teams around campus. Like my daughter’s team, the 9 freshmen lived in freshman housing, the upperclassmen lived in other dorms or off campus. Her second year, she lived with other athletes but not her teammates (her choice).
That can definitely be true! The year before last, our kids had to stay home for 2 days because of bad air quality from a nearby forest fire in the Santa Cruz mountains. Not nearly as fun as a snow day! But I also think there are weather considerations all over - tornados, hurricanes, the crazy winter super storms that have become more frequent - I guess you have to find a place where you’re comfortable with the weather drama.
Fair does not mean equal. Students choosing different paths will have different experiences and different opportunities no matter how hard a college tries to make everything the same. Going to college is a privilege that many cannot afford. Teach your children to appreciate these opportunities. Teach your children to not judge others for what they do or do not have.
The purpose of this post is for people to explain why schools moved up/down/off their list. For some, that may be how many organic food options a school has, or maybe its location of the freshman dorms, or whether a dorm has communal or private bathrooms. Don’t judge people for their choices and don’t assume that just because they choose a school that it means they think they are better than anyone else.
Are there people who are privileged or elitest? Absolutely. Is college crazy stupid expensive? Yes. Colleges are a business. Not a single one is perfect. One kid might need organic food to prevent diarrhea. Another kid may need a/c to prevent muscle cramps or heart arrythmias. Another kid may want a private shower because of being self-conscious of an ostomy. I’m fine if a college has options to fit everyone’s needs and budgets versus assuming everyone needs or wants the same thing.
Being from NJ we started our visits with PA, CT, and NY LACs. Bucknell and Lafayette were on the top of our S19 lists. Then he visited Richmond, Elon, and Wake and it was all over. He ended up at Richmond but actually would have picked Elon if the academics there were a notch higher.
The schools he crossed off after visiting were Dickinson because of the layout of the campus and the road running through it. Union, be liked the campus but not the surrounding area. Conn College because it felt isolated and dreary. Probably the biggest disappointment was Lehigh because he was really interested in the school before visiting, very impressed by the admissions session but did not like the campus layout with the hill, the dorms seemed sub-par and the town was just ok.
PLEASE take this to another post. This is one of the best threads on the forum, and the direction you’re taking it could lead to it being shut down. That would be so unfortunate and a huge disservice to all who have contributed and benefited from it.
A lot of flags have been cast on this thread. Instead of deleting/moving lots and lots of posts, I’m going to encourage the following:
those who wish to debate - stop
those who wish to change/divert the conversation - start another thread (really)
those who wish to keep this on-topic - use the flags to alert the mod team that the conversation should be deleted or split to another thread
This is quite the thread (5k!)…
UPDATE: Some of you may have received notices to edit your post - sorry about that. I meant to clean up some of the comments that discussed going off-topic. Please ignore.
Thanks. I couldn’t figure out why advising someone that Pickle parent’s concern was not directed at him was anything that anybody would even think to flag. Thought I was just trying to be helpful as the person thought the post was directed at him . Sorry .
I’m confused. All I was trying to do was share our experience in visiting schools with the intention it would be helpful to others. Did I criticize a school that someone went to? I certainly do not want to repeat what I did wrong but I have no idea what that is.
Took some time this summer to visit the Florida schools that DS22 is interested in:
Harriet Wilkes Honors College - DOWN This was top of the list on paper so we were excited to take a tour. We arrived 2 hours early so we could get lunch at the adjoining “downtown” area called Abocoa. That was very small but DS liked it, had a burger in a typical college type bar, so far so good. Then we drove over to the college. Immediately upon driving into the school something seemed off – we took a wrong turn inside the college and ended up behind some buildings and it was absolutely unkempt and messy. We figured it was because we were of the beaten path so to speak…but then we found the correct parking lot and our impression didn’t change much. The tour guide was great and was upbeat about the school. But boy oh boy deferred maintenance everywhere you look. The pool was completely grown over with weeds, buildings with paint peeling…even the dorms were musty and had giant fans and dehumidifiers blowing and the rooms were absolutely ancient. Aside from this the school felt just too small for DS. One dining hall and no bookstore (they have a traveling bookstore that comes once a month) didn’t cut it for him.
Florida Gulf Coast University – UP Drove to the school in the worst rainstorm known to man. Surprisingly we made it there alive and the sun came out as we exited the car. We were really impressed with the welcome center and were given a quick talk in an attached auditorium before the tour. Basically they offered DS $6k a year towards rooms and board for his SAT score. Because tuition is free with Bright Futures the 6k would be a substantial payment towards room and board. We boarded a small coach and were taken around. The campus is beautiful and modern and everything DS likes. We saw a dorm room which was lovely and backed onto a resort style pool. We walked across campus but disappointingly were not taken into any classrooms or the library. We just stood outside each building while the guide explained what was inside. After the tour we doubled back and went inside some classrooms and labs. We also went down to the beach area which is a lovely recreation area for the students with upperclassman dorms nearby. DS really liked the school with the exception of the dorm placement – it’s necessary to catch the shuttle bus to get to class wherever you live on campus.
New College – DOWN This is an interesting little school for a very specific student body. It’s another small school like Harriet Wilkes but felt bigger. The campus is on a beautiful piece of property but none of the buildings take advantage of the amazing bayfront, even the marine science lab is nowhere near the water. The college is older but well maintained unlike Harriet Wilkes. DS is a pretty straight-laced kid with conservative views and he didn’t think he would fit in too well. He also was horrified by the only dining option – a hall which closes each day at 6pm….they do have a selection of cold food and sandwiches after that. Even though this is an honors college they do not give grades just pass or fail. DS was concerned about not having grades to present to graduate school should he go that route. The campus is split in half by US 41 which is less than ideal. There is nothing close by the college to do, its right next to the airport – the only thing is a Starbucks 2.2 miles away. The freshman dorms were also very small and all triples so that was another negative for him.
University of Florida – UP We had been to UF a couple of years before and wandered around and I didn’t think much of it back then, not sure why, but I went in like a negative Nelly. We took an official tour this time and wow was it impressive. This place just oozes money…the labs, the gym, the theater etc. were all spectacular. Dining options were plentiful as you would expect. DS thought the campus was confusing and didn’t like the look of the older brick buildings but thought the school spirit was infectious. We didn’t get to see a dorm but the description from the guide of sharing a bathroom block with 30 – 50 of your closest friends was disturbing to DS. The tour ended at Gator stadium which is hard to be nonchalant about. DS is not into football but I could see him getting excited about the tailgating and the school spirit around the games. This school is a top place tie for DS
University of Central Florida – UP to the top for DS. We didn’t take an official tour but did have a tour of the Burnett Honors College. DS loved everything about it – especially the honors community, early registration options and the LLC in the Towers building which has the best dorms I have ever seen. The campus is right up his alley…very modern and planned layout. The buildings are fantastic with seemingly unlimited options for eating and entertainment. We plan to go back to do an official tour but did plenty of wandering though buildings. We were both a little concerned with the size of the student body, over 60k. DS said he would only consider this school if he got into the honors college. One of the students mentioned that she loved the honors college because sometimes it was impossible to get a seat anywhere in the 5 story library. This gave me pause. Right now 1st place tie for DS.
University of South Florida Tampa. DOWN DS is currently taking dual enrollment classed here (online) so he was somewhat familiar. The campus is ok – but the area around the school is sketchy. We took an official tour which had 43 people in it. It was ridiculous and took forever to walk anywhere. This may be the biggest tour I’ve been on. DS really disliked the school for no reason he could specifically say, it just felt really “commuter” and lacking in school spirit. They did offer 4k annually towards room and board but this is going to get crossed off the list.
We are from South Florida and did a Florida tour this past March for S21
New College Down He wanted to like it but just to small and nothing around off campus within walking distance. No grades wasn’t a concern based on schools history of placing students in top Grad schools. Each Student gets a written narrative from Professor on their performance Strengths/weakness etc for each class
University of South Florida Saint Petersburg Campus. UP. Separate campus from main about 4500 students in downtown ST Pete right on the Bay. They have free city bus and trolly with student ID takes you to ST Pete beaches which are beautiful. The school gives you a LAC feel with research university resources
These are the reasons he chose ST Pete over Tampa the location and class size. The degree is the same whichever campus you graduate from.
University of Florida ( my Alma Mater ) NEUTRAL Familiar with it but his first visit. He liked it, a top choice, State flagship, No real surprises for him but noted how big campus was.
Our D23 was with us on the tour and University of Florida is her first choice. She wants to go to Medical School not sure on undergrad major yet
Florida State University UP if that is possible since this was his first choice of instate schools. The campus was the nicest of all we visited and you can walk from one side to the other in 20 to 30 minutes max. Located in the Capital a plus for him Political Science/International Relations major planning on Law School, Plenty things around campus restaurants, shops, etc. He Especially liked their Study Abroad programs.
OOS schools unfortunately we could not visit in person, Son watched hours online of you tube videos. Penn State, Pitt, Michigan State, Iowa
His favorites were Penn State and Iowa
He ultimately chose FSU Florida State University. It was always his first choice and will be studying abroad in their First Year Abroad program at the FSU study center in Florence Italy.
Wow, thank you for this! I had no idea schools had such wide variation in housing costs! I thought all did a slightly different fee for single vs double …but wow. Are these large state schools? We didnt apply to any of those so maybe that’s why I never ran into the concept.
Brown: UP! D23 loved the campus layout, the town of Providence, and the integrated feel of arts with hard sciences and all of that—arts are not an afterthought there as they are at many schools
Smith: DOWN: campus had no obvious quads and the layout was just like a bunch of different buildings scattered across a few blocks, many too close together and too dissimilar. The overall acreage is small and it feels tight on campus.
Amherst: UP a little: hilly, big and spread out and beautiful spaces and layout, great first yr dorm location, science area is being completely redone and it looks as though will be phenomenal (yet who knows if will be complete by fall ‘23?). The town was cute but on the small end—not nearly as inspiring to her as being in Boston or Providence
Dartmouth: Down a little: lovely campus and it was a real tour with student guide—but lots of emphasis on outdoor activities. Seems you have to be a nature-lover to fit in there, and D is not. Location is pretty remote, but it does have a nice town. They are in an arts-expansion phase which is a plus, but the variety in arts isnt there yet compared to similar caliber schools? Hard to know for sure.
We recently visited 3 colleges in NY. DD has talked about going to school there for over 3 years, so this trip was a long time coming. Based on research, virtual tours and online info sessions, we scheduled tours at her top 3:
Hofstra: She didn’t love the campus (I thought it was nice) and neither us liked the location. She also didn’t love that the dorms were joined to the campus by a long walk through tunnels going over a busy street. They touted is an an advantage to separating your living and learning. She saw it as a huge disadvantage. She is going test optional and its the only school on her list of 8 that requires an 800 word essay on why test optional. Off the list.
Fordham: I will say that Fordham has been her top choice for over 2 years based on a lot of online research on her part. She has wanted to ED there for awhile to help boost her chances and its the only college t-shirt/sweatshirt she will wear. She didn’t love the location as much as she thought she would, thought the buildings and rooms were dated and while our tour guide was very sweet, the others we had contact with (security guard, admissions rep, employees we passed) were not. I got the vibe of ‘this is us, take it or leave it, but if you leave it, no biggie, there are 18,000 people behind you wanting a spot’. The word DD used at the end of the tour was ‘disappointing’. She will still apply but definitely not ED.
Pace: She loved everything about it from the location (the Financial District was unexpectedly beautiful), to the friendly staff, to the modern style of the newly updated buildings. She really just liked the vibe of all of it, from start to finish and told me after that she saw herself there. Frontrunner.
A couple of notes: Even though it was summer with very few students around, visiting these campuses in person made literally all the difference. She went from focusing all of her energies on the one school that on paper (and on zoom) had everything she was looking for to seeing it in person and realizing that it might not be her place after all.
We are also fortunate that DD doesn’t really know or care about rankings. To her, its not about a name or place on a list, but a feeling of fit and feel. Fordham is a low reach for her and the level of anxiety that comes with that has been huge for all of us. The fact that Pace is a safety has been amazingly liberating for her. We have see her stress level lower and her excitement level rise. It’s been a joy to watch the transformation.
@3rdkiddo What is D’s academic area of interest? I also thought Pace seemed cool and like a solid safety, but not sure if it’s good for someone who is undecided like my S.
Cornell is difficult to get to. There is no getting around that if you don’t live in the vacinity.
The Finger Lakes region is a popular vacation destination and I’m not surprised to hear that hotels were expensive since so many people aren’t traveling internationally because of Covid.
Campus is large but I definitely wouldn’t call it cold and impersonal. I would say that it would be super hard to judge right now because of all the Covid restrictions.
There are buses that run from North campus to main but it really isn’t a bad walk at all (and no hill to climb up ; )). I never rode the bus once when I was a student and I lived on west campus.
That said, my D didn’t have a great impression when we toured 4 years ago and ended up not applying. (Broke the hearts of many family members ; )).
Bucknell fell off my son’s list after our brief campus visit last spring. Driving in, through East Lewisburg, we were shocked at how economically depressed the area seemed. Then, like magic, when we crossed the river it was a different world on the other side of the bridge. The contrast was so stark that I began referring to the river as Bucknell’s moat. The little downtown area was very nice though.
@Golfgr8, although I’m a Cornell alumna and love Cornell, we totally skipped it during our East Coast college tour 3 years ago. I could not imagine my daughter wanting to go to college in a remote, stormy rural location even though it was perfect for me. My niece did not get a great impression when she toured several years ago and applied to other colleges in the Finger Lakes region. It sounds like Cornell really needs to work on its PR and tours during Covid!
That said, Cornell is certainly not impersonal in my opinion. It is an absolutely beautiful campus, and I found it to be fulfilling with a diverse student body, including lower middle class young adults like me.
I’m sorry the experience was so disappointing. As an aside, my daughter found her University of Washington tour so disappointing, but then she transferred there from Columbia University, and the Columbia tour had been one of her favorites. The experience of living in New York City was the biggest letdown, though.
Wishing you and your family the best with college choices! It’s hard to tell through just the tours.