A lot of students and parents like Honors Colleges because it can make a large school feel smaller and more intimate. I have never known anyone who brought up the objections you do. It is also common for athletes to live together in a special dorm.
My D22 will not be applying for Honors nor is she an athlete. It’s possible she might apply to some other residential living learning dorms. How do you feel about those?
It depends on how you define community. You are doing it at the institutional level, which is fine.
Full disclosure - I think honors colleges are more branding than substance. I don’t want to get into a discussion of the differences (and have every parent of a kid in one of them explain how great they are), but many that we looked at felt like little more than a label. It feels less educational…more corporate. The schools are playing the admissions game, which I find futile.
But the game is the game.
For the students that attend one of those programs…who get nicer dorms…who get better food, or better professors, or better advice…congratulations. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of the system created by others.
Your first statement suggests that different colleges exist to provide options, but express concerns that some institutions don’t treat everyone fairly. Go to a place that supports your values. if honors colleges offend you attend a school without one. That’s why so many colleges exist.
Oh, and to get this back on track my D22 really loved our visit to Richmond and VCU and that bumped it up on her list, but when I pointed out the Honors dorm was all “no way, then I’d have to do moooorrrre wooorrrrkkk”. If IIRC their Honors dorm is all singles so that is one of its perks but other VCU dorms also offer a few singles probably at a premium if kids prefer that. They all offer air conditioning — it’s 2021 not the 1980s when I was in college!!
She did not like UNC-Wilmington when we did a summer visit a few years ago. There were retirees there doing some program and she said it reminded her of a nursing home!
I can see how you feel this way based on the way you are observing the concept of honors colleges. I would share your distaste if I thought these students were actually perceived as special.
I am not sure, though, that most of the other students feel that this group is special or even have the biggest piece of cake. The things the schools market often mean a lot more to the parents than the students. (AC, advising, etc).
I am sure there are some kids that wish they got into the honors program. But the schools I am familiar with, if you polled the students and say do you wish you were in the honors dorm with more attention from profs, etc, most would probably say No thanks, I am happy where I am! And frankly many students may not even be aware there is an honors college. So I don’t think this group is seen like royalty? I could be wrong and am curious if others think these honors students are perceived as the 'haves". (I promise I am curious, not debating! :))
Thank you! Good grief, had I known that one small data point in a long list of things my kid found interesting about a school would spark a values debate, I would have skipped it! @BornMe — you do you. It’s all good.
I will say that on most of the many tours I went on with my DC, the kids didn’t ask anything. We were fortunate that we didn’t have any overbearing parents. But one kid said to his dad through gritted teeth, “Stop.asking.questions .dad”. Haha. (I think his dad asked 1 or 2 totally appropriate questions.)
I never asked anything that could be found on the website.
That is what I said to begin with, that this would make the school move down on my list….well, off it really. I agree with that and I said it myself! But it is very interesting to me, to see the lack of thought put into the idea.
As I mentioned we are looking at schools in the South in 2021. ALL the dorms have A/C!
Yes athlete dorms usually have special stuff for the athletes and likewise other living/learning residential colleges (aka dorms) have special stuff. Have you not looked at any colleges with those? It’s very common too.
What is more rare would be a college where every single dorm room is identical. I can’t think of any that we have looked at.
People try to get in the dorms that appeal to them. What schools are you looking at? Dig deeper and I’m sure you will find some dorms have one thing to offer and some have something else. Some might be high rise suite-style dorms. Some might be old school with bathrooms down the hall. You might be able to pay more for a dorm with en-suite bathrooms. Just depends on the school.
Dig a little deeper on the housing section of the websites. Honors dorms are just one of the options if you have the grades to get in. There are also International dorms, Sustainability dorms, Substance-free dorms, Social Justice dorms, Entrepreneurial/business dorms, etc.
Certainly there is some amount of gaming available to those that go down that path. But…maybe, just maybe, there are actually many legitimate honor students that qualify for these programs. I know mine were / are. Don’t personally know any that aren’t, although I know they exist. Hopefully we don’t have to be so cynical and assume an honor student didn’t “earn it” when I imagine the vast majority do. Absolutely some don’t. That’s OK. They’re reach their level of competency or incompetency either in the program or later in life (incompetent not used pejoratively - just to mean literally without competence in a certain area - of which I have many!)
I’m not sure why your post asking about the athlete dorms and mentioning the extra contact with professors, etc got flagged. It seems like you are just now learning about the different “living learning communities” some colleges offer. Seems like a fine question to ask to me.
So, I am far from an expert, but the way I understand it many universities and LACs offer “living learning communities” or “residential colleges”. They are often themed around a common interest like a foreign language, where everyone in the dorm commits to being immersed in the language or they might have a theme like sustainability where everyone commits to composting and recycling. And yes these “living learning communities” or “residential colleges” often do have special classes just for the students who live in those dorms. That is part of the appeal.
Honors Dorms are just one kind of 'Living Learning Community".
Here’s a page with more info on “Living Learning Communities”: What is a Living Learning Community? – Colleges of Distinction
And here are some links to various “living learning communities” at different universities and colleges:
https://reslife.ucla.edu/livinglearning/
https://sc.edu/about/offices_and_divisions/housing/living-learning-communities/index.php
https://www.studentaffairs.pitt.edu/reslife/llc/
Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread! My D22 is really interested in studying in the UK and we are contemplating trying to go over there for a visit, but this COVID and Delta stuff makes that worrisome. They are letting Americans in now w/o requiring a 10 day quarantine if we are fully vaxed. I will report back if we are able to visit.
One school she did visit this summer was Hollins. She did a week long camp there and enjoyed it very much. Hollins went back on her US list although she really wants to go somewhere that she doesn’t know anyone and she has a friend going to Hollins in a couple of weeks. I’m glad it went back on the list, though.
Yes, at some schools athletes get better dorms, better/private food and dining halls, and better/separate work out facilities. Not to mention dedicated tutors to travel with the team.
I assume you are the parent and not the student, but the good thing is it’s easy to avoid schools with honors colleges or those that give preferential treatment for athletes. Does your student feel the same way about these issues? Are the honors colleges really any different than HSs with honors/AP/IB tracks for students? Lots of times those classes are smaller, have better teachers, etc.
I agree with @Sweetgum’s suggestion to dig deeper on the Residential options at the colleges your student is interested in. The options are different at each school.
Yes, some may offer an Honors or Athletic dorms for those cohorts. Others may have Living Learning Communities (or Theme Housing) for specific areas of interest (Sustainability, Community Service, Substance-free, STEM, International, etc.) and those typically require an application due to limited space. The “amenities” at each dorm are typically different, even if in a “standard” dorm. Facilities are constructed at different times and some of the older buildings may not be considered as “nice” as newer ones based on amenities or location on campus. Assignment to a specific dorm may be by lottery or first come first served by date of housing deposit… again, you would need to research each college.
Back in the day, when I submitted my dorm application with my preferences… guess what? I got my third choice, which was one of the older dorms that had not been renovated in many years and did not have A/C (and was in the South)! Great location though. 
ETA: Wow, several replies have already covered all this. I got distracted composing my reply. Oops.
To each their own. Viva la choice!
There are so many flavors of honors experiences. AZ’s program is on one side, where it is a liberal arts college within a University. I think you apply for it and aren’t given it? I always thought of it like a merit scholarship, and a way for the state to economically provide an LAC option to people who want one and can’t afford privates. It isn’t elitist in my view, kinda the opposite.
In the middle of the spectrum, it is probably a little fuzzy. Most don’t give special dorms, etc. You might get priority in picking classes. If the dorm thing matters to you, and I can understand why even though it doesn’t to me, great. There was a freshman honors dorm floor where I went to college, and I don’t recall it making a bit of difference. But that begs the question as why they exist.
Some have just extra discussion-based courses for their honors programs, and only for freshmen. Those are only really appealing to some students, and I doubt make any difference to anyone’s future lives. But they are merit-based. I wouldn’t think their existence would be a deal-breaker for people, if the school otherwise checked enough other boxes.
Point is, not all honors programs are the same.
Y’all should start a separate thread discussing the pros and cons of honors programs within schools. Clearly there’s a debate to be had.
My W and D22 toured many colleges in June: Northwestern, UPenn, JHU, Case Western, Cornell, Duke, Brown, and Washington U at St Louis. In previous years, our D22 attended summer programs at Stanford, Georgetown, and Brown. The only change to her preferences is that JHU is joined by Duke for her #1 choice. Most tours were virtual. She did get to see a dorm room at Duke and Washington U at St Louis. She has stayed in dorms at Stanford, Georgetown, and Brown. I don’t think any of her dorm experiences have been luxurious, but she has not said that that his high on her list of requirements.
Objection, unsupported assertion.
But! It’s worth remembering the point of this thread—it’s to discuss why potential students moved colleges up or down on their lists, not for parents to discuss issues of the ethics of the way colleges treat their students (which, I assure you as someone who’s worked in higher education for decades, very much thought gets put into from the institutional side).
But to wrest this fully on topic, here’s my children’s reactions to the availability of honors housing:
The big takeaways from this, particularly from my first two kids who have been through it, are that (a) your kids’ preferences don’t always end up matching what they do, and (b) those preferences can change over time and through experience.
The NCAA did away with that in 1991. In the dinosaur days when I was in school, the football and basketball (men’s) teams lived in their own dorm (not necessarily nicer, but all theirs) and ate breakfast with the regular students and lunch and dinner at ‘training tables.’ MUCH better food. Now they eat and live with the regular students, although they might get preference for room assignments and might choose to live in the same dorms.
My daughter, and athlete, lived in the same freshman housing as 96% of the freshmen. All suites, all exactly the same. All students had the same meal plan. She did get preference for course registration and some other athletic perks.
Other daughter lived in the standard dorm. Her roommate was in the honors college and chose to live in the regular dorm. There was an honors dorm but it was on fraternity row so was a house that used to be a fraternity house (university owned the greek housing too). Not that special. Not sure what they did for meals.
Some schools absolutely have preferred housing for athletes, and dining areas…some of these dining areas are in the athletic buildings, as well as other perks. Here is but one example (although I don’t think this has any new housing): Intercollegiate Athletics - Athletes Village | UMN Capital Project Management
When we were looking at colleges for my oldest (D20), I was very put off when we went to colleges that had massive ranges in dorm room styles/prices as well as meal plan price ranges. Those institutions were making choices I fundamentally didn’t agree with and did not want to support.
I thought then (and still do) that having dorm rooms available at (for example) $7k a year for the cheapest and ~$17k per year at the most expensive really just highlighted the income inequality baked into the residential experience that wealthy vs. non-wealthy students would have at those universities. A single room triple with communal bathroom at the lowest end (usually) vs. apartment style suite living with private bathrooms and sometimes even private laundry facilities.
Same thing with the meal plans. I’ve heard all the arguments for allowing students who eat a lot (athletes, boys, etc) and those who eat very little (usually young women in the examples I’ve seen) getting to tailor their plan and therefore their spending as if that is purely positive. It also assumes that those who eat substantially more have the resources to purchase the largest meal plans which is patently untrue. I also know from both personal experience and research done that many low-income students struggle with hunger on college campuses and often then make meal plan choices not based on how much that student needs to eat, but by how much they might be able to save by skimping on their meal plan.
We as a family didn’t want to support that type of system. So, one of the things we look for were schools that charged the same rates for dorm room, regardless of which dorm you were assigned and had meal plans that cost the same no matter what plan flexibility a student chose.
We ended up with a good selection of schools that do charge the same rate for also all rooms (singles were always just a bit more per year - between $500-$1k usually), and meal plans were standardized in terms of cost…the difference within the plans being how much flex money was available vs. meal swipes.
Those schools (no coincidentally imo) also were very good at having more racial and SES diversity; they usually had the highest percentage of Pell grant recipients, first generation students as well as higher levels of URM students.
My daughter ended up in one of the oldest dorms, tiny double occupancy room with built-in furniture without A/C, communal bathroom down the hall with the dreaded shower curtain separators between shower heads her first year. And paid the same amount as those students in the LEED certified newer dorms with A/C, cute lounge areas and better location. Every student paid the same amount to live in doubles. This year, she has a great space in a language suite (having applied for that spot and agreed to live in an immersion experience with multiple language obligations weekly), much better location, same price as everyone else on campus, including those living in her old dorm.
I think there are a lot of ways to discern the values and focus at colleges and universities and then vote with your applications and ultimate deposit of which kind of school you want to attend. Housing and meal plans are an important one for our family.