<p>Hi Miramonte dad,-I relate to your sit-my S's very, very first choice was Columbia, so only after attending numerous open houses and group chats, being assured by CU that his full financial need would be met (it was), and after id'ing 10 other schools (3 of which were true safeties that he liked, and 3 of which were probable matches that he liked) that he could apply to, he applied ED to CU, and he was accepted ED in Dec. 04. His stats: SAT I: 1450(750V/700M), PSAT 214 (NMSC Commended Student-missed NYS NMSF cutoff by 4 points), SAT IIs: 720 Writing, 710 World History, 610 Math IIC, grade average @94 unweighted, 95.5 weighted, class rank 5/158 (he attends a fairly new, privately subsidized public HS which provides an intensive arts pre-conservatory/college prep curriculum-he took 3 arts classes plus 5 academics course, including APs, per term). His ECS and supporting recs showed a strong passion,dedication, and leadership in 3 main areas: theatre, writing/journalism, and political activism. Good essay, very good interview-beyond that, who knows? Something in his overall app must have spoken to them, and I do think applying ED helped, even tho the same standards apply, because he was in the smaller, and first group of apps they looked at with fresh eyes? The hardest part for him was preparing those other 10 apps (they were stacked on our dining room table until he got his acceptance e-mail 12/10,then ceremoniously discarded that evening) with as much gusto as his CU app., and to prepare himself for the very, very possible disappointment. My S is a white male from NYC (Queens), neither an athlete nor a legacy, who needs big time financial aid. Please bear in mind that 1450 is around the median (old) Sat score for admitted CU students, and I know plenty of non-legacies with SAT scores below 1550 who've gotten in to CU. Very best of luck to you and your D!</p>
<p>Miramonte - just an observation based on the admittedly biased sample of CC kids posting in Dec 2004. If you go back and read the threads at ED this past Dec, you may notice that most of the students accepted to Col ED had SATs less than 1500, and many of the 1500 kids were rejected - this is in stark contrast to, say Dartmouth, where almost every student accepted in the ED round who posted had SATs above 1500. Of course, there are many possible explanations, up to and including outright lying about scores. </p>
<p>However, some have posted that Columbia is a school that wants to know that the acceptees are in love with Columbia, not in love with NYC, as Columbiamom2's description of her son would illustrate. At any rate, based on the CC results for 2004, as posted, they are certainly looking for something beyond raw numbers in the ED round. Just an observation, with no real way to know what it means.</p>
<p>ADDED: I also would speculate that Columbia might be interested in kids who understand the implications of the core curriculum, and consider the core a strength of the school. I think Dartmouth, on the other hand, is using ED to lock in high stat kids that want to come there, instead of fighting a battle for high stat kids with schools that might be perceived as having a more desireable location.</p>
<p>The recentering of the SAT's, at the outside, added perhaps 25 points to the (up through 2004) scores, not the 90 or so indicated.</p>
<p>Miramonte dad: I hesitated to reply, because I don't feel qualified to discuss chances, but I can tell you about my S's admissions experience (just finished Frosh yr at Columbia). Like Cmom2's S, mine also did not have any obvious hooks--white male from NJ, not legacy or athlete. High but not earthshattering SAT (1510), uneven SAT 2's (ranging from 760-640). 7/400 from mediocre public school (average SAT--920). Missed NJ cutoff for National Merit by 4 (woulda made it in 40+ states.)</p>
<p>He applied ED (we knew we were just above the FA line). Like C-mom said, I think this gave them more time to look at his app carefully. So, what stood out? No way to know, but I think, like she said, it was his sustained interest in two areas--music and astronomy. Everything in his app talked about those, from his activities list to his list of favorite books read to his essay (which was about an incident which linked the two). This incident was also (unbeknownst to us) mentioned in the GC letter. He did not attach any kind of resume or supplements, because the Columbia app urges the student not to.</p>
<p>Echoing Cangel, his "why Columbia?" short answer was a paean to the Core, which was absolutely his main reason for wanting to go there. He also discussed this extensively with his interviewer.</p>
<p>Oh, and he and his interviewer both turned out to be avid Mets fans--I think that this clinched it! :)</p>
<p>Very good points there-at Days on Campus in April '05, my S's dad and I attended a Parents' Dinner with an adcom rep-he said they look VERY closely at the short answer questions on the app-e.g books read, shows seen, summer pursuits, favorite ec,etc. For the "Why Columbia" question, they look for an understanding and appreciation of the core, and diversity-advise to stay away from any mention of NYC-my son wrote about how he loved the diversity and freedom of thought within the structured core curric-also the "question everything you're taught" philosophy.</p>
<p>Columbiamom--at the info session, when the speaker said "we're looking for students who like to argue" S knew he'd found his home.</p>
<p>just went through the college process with my daughter and after going through it i would not put all my eggs in one basket, especially an ivy basket as the selection process is too random and too subjective. no doubt your daughter has very good stats but so do so many other applicants. be careful and cover all your bases.</p>
<p>In light of above, let me add that S's second choice was Michigan; he'd already been accepted before the ED, and liked it a lot. So he was really in a no-lose situation.</p>
<p>Miramonte--IMHO, being from California is a detriment in applying to ANY Ivy. Just as Stanford, Pomona, and Caltech (and UCLA and Berkeley, of course, although in their case it's required) take a disproportionate number of CA kids, places like Columbia take a disproportionate number of East Coast kids. (Remember Matt Damon, a Cambridge boy, got into Harvard and wasn't exactly famous at the time. Harvard makes a point of taking a few local kids every year.) I think there was a thread last year where someone atually proved this with reams of numbers. </p>
<p>I'm glad for Columbiamom's son, who made it into Columbia ED. He is, however, from New York, and he did apply early when the odds are much better. (Overall, 20-25% acceptance rate for EDs vs. as low as 3% acceptance for RD, non-legacy, non-athlete kids at HYP.) Follow her lead--if Columbia is really your daughter's first choice, apply early. </p>
<p>Plan for the best, but expect the worst.</p>
<p>True-Columbia College stats for Class of 2009: ED: 50% rejected, 27% deferred to RD, 23% accepted. Overall admission rate was 10.4% so I guess the RD admission rate was @7-8%-very low-a friend of my S's with 1500 SATs from Hunter HS in NYC (good grades, not sure about ecs,) applied RD and was rejected, however many apps to Columbia and the other Ivys from this particular HS each year-I tend to wonder of the fact that my son's HS is new, somewhat special and unique with a very famous founder and lots of good local press, plus the fact that he was the first and only student from this HS to apply to Columbia, helped him to stand out...</p>
<p>I don't think applying from California is a disadvantage at all. I believe that second to New York, the largest number of entering students came from California last time I looked at the stats.</p>
<p>For a student who really, really has a first choice, there are clear advantages to applying ED, especially if the stats are in the middle of the acceptance range but not the top. But that's a delicate balance -- how to advise your child that it's worth taking that shot versus how to assure your child that he or she would be happy in any of numerous places and therefore lessen the rejection somewhat. Maybe part of that decision should be based on how you think your kid would handle rejection, and on how informed you think his or her choice of school is. We did such a good job of convincing our kid there was no one perfect college, that he agonized about making up his mind even once all the choices were in!</p>
<p>As for getting in, hope this helps: I think the bottom line is to put a lot of thought into the application itself (not just the essay, but the short answers, who writes the reccs, any extra material submitted) so that a student stands out for some one or two reasons, stats aside. It could be for intellectual curiosity, for activism for a cause, for some special artistic talent, for having overcome something in life, for having started something at school no one else had thought of, for being an incredible writer. I'm not sure the particulars matter as much as a reader thinking: this kid is interesting, this is a great kid, this is someone who would be great to have on this campus for four years in the classroom and on the stage or picket line, or at the food bank, or, or ,or....</p>
<p>We chatted once with an adrep after a presentation and he asked our son what high school he went to. Then, the guy said: so and so came from that school, he started a rock climbing club for the county. That was two years after this kid would have applied, and this adrep still remembered what he associated with the kid. I bet he didn't remember the kid's specific SAT scores.</p>
<p>Is this a miscalculation?
1420 SAT (Reading 690, Math 730, Essay 11, Writing 650)
The 1420 seems to be just the reading+math scores,and not the total w/respect to the new test.</p>
<p>i don't think that she has very good chances. i myself am very interested in columbia and don't think i have good chances (4.0 (to go up) GPA, 1420 SATS (hopefully will go up this saturday), piano, violin, teaching, work experience (2 jobs at same time, 2 internships), NHS exec board, 3 season varsity athlete since freshman year for ECs). Columbia is also one of the most selective schools.</p>
<p>a 3.6 with 7 AP classes seems a little low, 4.0+ is the ideal GPA.</p>
<p>also she has very little extra curriculars. and the SAT scores could be brought up.</p>
<p>my friend with a 1480 SAT, 3.7 GPA, many many extra curricular activities (including 2 season team captain) didn't even get into georgetown, where it has one of the best schools for her major (international relations).</p>
<p>Ettish, I agree with you but only because hardly anyone has a good chance of getting into Columbia. But you really can't figure things out by comparing it to the experience of your friend who didn't get into Georgetown - those are very different schools. The fact that your friend was interested in international relations would tend to work against her, not for her -- colleges are always deluged with plenty of highly qualified applicants for their strongest majors. It isn't about what a person's stats or ECs or accomplishments are, its about how that person fits into the needs of the college for a class with diverse talents and interests.</p>
<p>The kids from my daughter's school who got into Columbia have been extracurricular all-stars. Football players, editor of the school newspaper. Kids with better stats but less sterling extracurriculars from the same school were rejected. Admission there seems to be a real crapshoot, as with other of the schools that are now hyper-selective.</p>
<p>A friend's son, with worse stats than any of these others, got in. He was a good, but not amazing, high school athlete and scholar at a NY metro area public school. He applied ED. That might be a key right there. Maybe.</p>
<p>wow! I read everyone's posts. Thank you for all of the very informative responses and the other discussions going on here. We parents are a passionate group when it comes to our kids. And the students who posted...love it!. You guys lay it out there and don't sugar coat it. </p>
<p>The conclusions I've come to here and what my D has learned recently from an admissions consultant are very similar. There are three key areas the Ivy's consider in applicants, as follow:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>SAT scores (It's the only objective stat they have unless you come from a known prep school where the grading system and SB IQ is known by the adcomms)</p></li>
<li><p>Focused EC's (Ivy adcomms want people who are going to "engage" in life. So an applicant who has multiple EC's around a specific theme demonstrates a real passion for that theme...and as one poster said, "this is memorable")</p></li>
<li><p>Communication skills (application short answers and the essay need to tell a compelling story. And the in-person interview is a key selling moment. Top schools want kids who can communicate their interests, passions, and value.)</p></li>
</ol>
<p>Thank you,</p>
<p>Dad</p>
<p>i feel as if a 3.6 probably wouldn't even get you into the pile for an admissions officer to even look at.</p>
<p>and yes they are different but my point is that georgetown is not as competitive of a school as columbia, yet with better stats she couldn't even get in.</p>
<p>The absolute GPA is usually not as important as the class rank in virtually every study I've seen. There's a steep decline in admissions percentage: Val, Sal, top 5 percent, second 5 percent, second decile.</p>
<p>that seems dumb because a person in a 100 person class could be valedictorian with a 3.8 wheras, for example in my class there are over 360 students, and top 5% means you need to have a 4.1+ (4.3 doesn't even get you valedictorian or sal).</p>
<p>They really just look at SAT. Highschools vary so much in student body abilities and grading systems are so wildly different from district to district that adcomm's no longer rely on GPA. Unless an applicant comes from a known HS such a Exeter, St. Paul, New Trier, Piedmont, etc, the adcomm really just looks at SAT. However, if youre from a known school "class ranking" is considered. And further detail is looked at regarding types of classes and your GPA. 4.5 with easy classes vs. 4.0 in AP classes...who do you think the adcomms choose.</p>
<p>D comes from known HS, although a far cry from the matriculation to Ivy at schools such as St. Paul, her school places 8% (25 students) at Ivy's, Stanford, MIT and Cal-tech) each year. Another 50% go to top liberal arts colleges and UC's. At her HS only three or four students taking AP classes and other honors classes graduate with a 4.0 un-weighted. So 3.6 un-weighted in the AP/honors curriculum she's had puts her in the top 8% of the class. This should work for Ivy consideration and possible acceptance assuming her SAT II's are high.</p>