<p>A good professor would (and should) shut them up, regardless of division.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Eh, how does one "refute" a boring life story or bragging rights over someone's career experience? The problem in question is that most of these contributions are not, in fact, arguments or valid points relating to the material whatsoever.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>People have vocal folds for a reason. "John's ideas are interesting but I don't think they're relevant to the subject at hand. I think that blah blah blah..."</p>
<p>And here I thought that the admissions folks at Columbia GS was going to change things by shuting out everyone who has less than a 3.7 to 4.0 GPA, so that they could match CC admissions standards. This way, the lines between GS and CC would no longer make a difference. At least that has been my experience with the GS admissions office. Straight "A" students. Nothing less than that.</p>
<p>"So, Columbia College is at the same level as GS?"</p>
<p>For all intents and purposes, yes. A General Studies student is an undergraduate student at Columbia University. As a GS student you have few if any restrictions in terms of course registration at Columbia. There are some weird anomalies (until recently, only GS students could major in Creative Writing). </p>
<p>However, GS has a separate administration from Columbia College and SEAS (which are under the domain of the blandly named "Division of Student Affairs". Student affairs runs admissions, programming, residential life, student activities, financial aid, etc. etc.) GS has its own student affairs division separate from the traditional undergrads. As a result GS ends up being somewhat of the black sheep undergrad school on an administrative level. Cause for lots of *****ing and moaning. GS students don't live in Columbia undergrad housing, but can get digs through Columbia's apartment housing (grad students and stuff live in the buildings around campus etc.)</p>
<p>In terms of career services, I think GS students have access to all the same stuff as CC students. Not certain though.</p>
<p>I want to stress that GS serves three purposes- 1) School for non-traditional students (drop outs looking to re enroll, people who took a few years off, and of course older students. We have some random people in GS, I think the guy who programmed Internet Explorer is currently enrolled.) 2) School for students enrolled in a dual degree program with Jewish Theological Seminary's List College. Many of them are traditional college aged but apparently JTS requirements don't mesh with the Core or something silly like that. So the students have to get their BA through GS. They can live in JTS dorms adjacent to the campus. 3) Post-Bac Pre med students. I think that covers the majority of GS students.</p>
<p>Burb parent- most people dont care in their later years. During your early years in college, especially first year, you're coming off a process in which you feel incredibly special. You are among the 'chosen' few who were accepted into a special college. You feel elite, you've been set for life! So it becomes part of your experience to look down on people who didnt get into your elite bastion. And then you feel cheated when you realize other people are getting all the same benefits without having to go through the sheer ridiculousness that is the admissions process these days. It warps everything about college.</p>
<p>As for closing GS, I'm ambivalent, I'd like to see the University reorganize the schools under one umbrella, and raise the bar for admissions. Then no one can complain.</p>
<p>ConfucianNemisis,
Columbia GS HAS raised the bar with its admissions policy. NOW they require at least a 3.7 to 4.0 GPA to warrent serious consideration, regardless of your previous college. Anyone below that, your eliminated. It used to be at least a 3.0 GPA; how times has changed for Columbia GS. </p>
<p>I was rejected for having a 3.5+ GPA in a very strong academic program at my previous college. I certainly hate to see The Harvard Extension School follow Columbia GS lead to match their traditional counter parts in the admissions arena.</p>
<p>I recently hired a Columbia graduate for an entry level job in my company. Only after she arrived did I learn that she was a GS graduate. I did feel that it was a question of "bait and switch." She looks very young for her age, so it seemed reasonable that she was 22 rather than 32. I realize it's an isolated incident, but she is having trouble in the job and I can't help but wonder how a CC grad would be performing.</p>
<p>^ The same thing could have happened with a cc grad. Some people just interview well...</p>
<p>nervousmommy:</p>
<ol>
<li>this is really your company?</li>
<li>you hired someone without looking at their age?</li>
<li>you don't believe columbia university is enough to justify her degree? i - and many of my gs colleagues - plan on stopping at columbia university. how exactly is this bait and switch?</li>
<li>you wish to go ahead and assume deep down for all intents and purposes that any given columbia college graduate would perform better than your hire?</li>
</ol>
<p>nervousmommy -- stop being so nervous about your hire and the little things that came along with her history.</p>
<p>in other news, SEAS graduates are extremely diligent, humble sorts who would never do such a thing as frequent a message board during work hours.</p>
<p>I'm a GS graduate. My experience with GS, and I believe that admissions standards have tightened, is that the school has tended to take chances on students. For example, RW Apple Jr, a graduate, originally attended Princeton but didn't do so well and returned to school at GS (so the new admissions standards, if true, would exclude him). It has many graduates like that. Also, when CC was less willing to admit Jewish students, or at least not too many (e.g. Isaac Asimov, a graduate of GS/university extension, was understandably upset with Columbia about this and the College went back and granted him an honorary degree). During that part of the 20th Century, many Jewish students went to university extension (particularly if you had a Brooklyn accent) the administrative precursor to GS' formal organization (GS really took off after the G.I. Bill). </p>
<p>The school graduated 2 nobel laureates, which isn't too bad for such a small school, over the course of the last century. You can see a list of notable alumni, if one is so inclined at wikipedia: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_School_of_General_Studies%5B/url%5D">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_University_School_of_General_Studies</a> </p>
<p>I'm proud of my education, and have many CC friends. I must submit, though, that it is accurate that the school is not as prestigious in the minds of many as CC. This doesn't mean the education itself is not excellent. It also has its share of people that are not prepared for columbia. I didn't count to see if there were more or less than in the College. It seems to me, though, that some CC students were willing to overlook less prepared atheletes or legacy students than a GS student who might be a bit more colorful and ask too many questions in class (by virtue of not really caring so much what an 18 year thinks of them).</p>
<p>I do think it ironic though, that transfer students from Harvard, Princeton, or Yale find themselves having to justify their academic bona fides to a minority element of CC who happen to be insecure. </p>
<p>I read mention of GS alumni doing interesting things, including a management guru. I'm pretty successful in what I do (philanthropy and business) and would be interested in hearing from GS alumns that are making a difference and/or successful: <a href="mailto:wwsnyc@yahoo.com">wwsnyc@yahoo.com</a> GS, because of its age and history, doesn't have the best alumni relations or opportunities for networking.</p>
<p>(By the way, I agree SEAS rocks. Smartist kid I ever met was from SEAS during my time at CU).</p>
<p>Best of luck here--remember most people care mostly about what you accomplish after school.</p>
<p>Good point. It's too bad that the admissions office at Columbia GS is overlooking one thing: Some of the schools' greatest Alumnus were never straight "A" students prior to their enrollment at the school. They seem to think that a 4.0 GPA is superior to a 3.5 GPA, without regards to the level of difficulty of the classes and the grades earned as a result. Not all grades/classes are created equal.</p>
<p>It's so ironic when I asked about the reasons behind their decision to reject my application for admission. They told me that my essays and recommendations were excellent. But my 3.5 GPA wasn't good enough, despite taking a very rigorous academic program that would better prepare me for the challenges that I'll face in the upper division classes. </p>
<p>But I'm over it now. My attention is completing my application for Penn College of General Studies. If they reject me, then my final college choice that I'll apply to is the Harvard Extension School. I've always wanted to attend an Ivy League school because of the shear resources that they have with regards to my academic interests. At least, HES will give me an opportunity to prove myself. Is that too much to ask?</p>
<p>I don't think you are over it, because you've harped on it about half a dozen times on this board. To be perfectly honest, based on everything you've posted, it sounds like something other than your GPA kept you out of Columbia GS. Who exactly did you speak with in admissions? Did you had a chance to better explain your situation and listen to their reasoning? If you're as passionate about the school as it sounds you are, be sure to let them know that. I wouldn't entirely close the door on GS until you're able to discuss your individual situation with someone high up at the school -- starting with the Dean of Admissions. If you defend your grades and strongly sell yourself to whomever's willing to listen, I still think you'd have a shot at GS.</p>
<p>I have spoken to a high level admissions officer who was a part of the committee that made the decision to reject my application. And he firmly told me that they want students who have at least a 3.7 to 4.0 GPA. The way in which he explained my circumstances was the fact that they are concentrating their focus on students who would normally attend other top tier colleges to apply to Columbia GS in order to improve it academic profile within the Ivy League, as well as to match the academic standards of Columbia College.</p>
<p>In other words, they want students who were strong in both high school and their previous college. They want to recruit the same batch of top students who are applying from other top tier schools. Those were his words.</p>
<p>It made me very angery to hear that because I contacted the admissions office to find out the latest requirements for admission. I didn't believe that it was a 3.0 GPA anymore, for I felt that the standards are much higher. I asked to speak to an admission officer about my concerns prior to applying to the school. They told me that they would like to see a 3.0 GPA, and that the admissions office will contact me concerning my application. They rudefully told me that I can't arrange to speak to the admissions officer concerning admission to the school. If I have had the chance to speak to a senior admissions officer beforehand, I would not have applied to Columbia GS based on those new standards.</p>
<p>I hope that my answer to your question clears up everything about my contact with the school and the reasons behind my ill feelings towards the admissions office at Columbia GS.</p>
<p>Whomever you spoke with in admissions is either new and doesn't understand GS, or the mission of the school has changed considerably in the past two years (which I highly doubt, even though they did hire a new Dean of Admissions since I started). Many of the most successful GS students come to the school without high school diplomas. They pass the GED and then the GS entrance exam (along with the SAT/SAT IIs or ACT). I've never heard of these "new admissions standards" that you continually cite. And we already attract students who would otherwise attend top tier schools if they went through the traditional direct-to-college process, or started at a top tier, took time off for whatever the reason, and decided to conclude at GS, and even some that are working on a second degree at GS, having earned the first at a top school.</p>
<p>While your experience tends to leave a sour taste in my mouth, you should be aware that the situation - as it has been explained to you and presented on this board - seems to be outside the scope of the typical GS admissions process. For the sake of finality (and perhaps even your own sanity -- tongue-in-cheek), do yourself a favor and set up an appointment with Curtis Rodgers. If you're in the New York area or can be in the New York area, do it in person. Explain your whole situation, what you were told prior to applying, what you've been told was reason for rejection, and express a continued interest in the school. If you're proactive about this, I think you'll be admitted.</p>
<p>Redline, I know you are upset but this is what you previously posted as your classes... I wouldn't really consider this a rigorous course load. I am sorry you didn't get in but it looks like you are missing math, science and possibly a foreign language.</p>
<p>Fall 2000 </p>
<p>English Composition I (Honors) Grade: A </p>
<p>Intro. to Astronomy Grade: A </p>
<p>Intro. to Religion Grade: A </p>
<p>World History (Honors) Grade: A </p>
<br>
<blockquote> </blockquote>
<br>
<p>Spring 2005 </p>
<p>World History Grade: A </p>
<p>Social Problems Grade: A </p>
<p>Political Philosophy Grade: B </p>
<p>Intro. to Logic Grade: D</p>
<p>Yikes. I didn't see that posted earlier. There seem to be a number of red flags with that transcript. For starters, only four courses per term. Was that typical of where you were? Did your school not give out pluses and minuses? Why is there a gap between Spring of 2001 and Spring of 2003? Why did you withdraw from Earth Sciences? How can you explain the grade earned in Logic? I agree with Sweetny that your courseload doesn't sound extremely rigorous, at least based on what you posted, and while you seemed to have a couple of outstanding semesters, the rest (and those other questions raised) are slightly alarming from an admissions point of view.</p>
<p>I told myself I wasn't going to reply to this thread again. Anywho...</p>
<p>redlinekid, it's a shame you didn't get accepted because you seem to really have a desire to attend CU.</p>
<p>As I said the last time I spoke about this, a D in logic doesn't really yell out 'take me!'. You'll have to take math courses to graduate from GS/CU (you said you want to major in Econ, right?), and if you can't pass intro logic what tells them you're prepared to handle calc or statistics? So maybe your grades were a factor but it probably wasn't the fact that you have a 3.5. It was probably the fact that you failed a class last year. Why didn't you get a W?</p>
<p>Also, why did you take the same course twice? To pad the GPA?</p>
<p>GS is forgiving in it's admissions policy but not that forgiving.</p>
<p>Here is a clearification of my academic record:</p>
<p>The World History classes is actually parts I and II</p>
<p>The Logic Class that I enrolled in did not have any academic support services available in the form of academic workshops and tutorial services. I had trouble understanding the professors' explaination of the material. Without that the help I needed, I couldn't pass the class. </p>
<p>Don't underestimate my ciriculum. Those were some of the toughest subjects around, and they were required for graduation. I reget not taking trigonometry at that time instead of College Algebra, as I took Trigonometry in H.S. I am taking Trigonometry in the summer semester as an audit class.</p>
<p>The foreign language classes I left out deliberately because I wanted to focus on my writing/critical thinking skills in the English language. Why should I take a foreign language class if I can't learn my own? I'll deal with that subject after I've completed my major and other requirements. It's the last subject that I'll deal with. </p>
<p>As I mentioned before, I am focus on Penn's CGS Program. If I can't get in the program, then I'll apply to the Harvard Extension School. At least, they'll give me a chance to show what I can do, unlike Columbia GS. </p>
<p>As for my academic program, I took the most challenging classes that was available at the time. The most interesting classes I wanted to enroll in, such as History of Science, were not available. There were more technical classes at my former school than liberal arts. And because of the consolidation of the Honors Program into the Honors College, I was barred from enrolling in those classes, even though I was once and Honors student. The new program was exclusive to top performing H.S. graduates only.</p>
<p>I hope that I've answered your questions.</p>
<p>Columbia GS, Penn CGS, Harvard Extension...</p>
<p>I suppose the next logical question is why you seem to be limiting yourself to the few continuing-ed-lite programs offered through ivy league schools? If it's the name of the undergraduate university you're after, you could always plop down whatever it costs to attend Yale as a Special Student.</p>