Columbia on my mind..

Graduate School Law School
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<p>Hello!</p>

<p>I've posted around for quite a while on the regular college admissions forums aiming to earn a second degree (as a transfer, fewer years) in intl relations or so. I've been living abroad with my family, but looking to go back to the states and settle down. I'm actually finishing my first bachelor's degree in Law and Political Science (the law degree in the country I'm living in) and will be eligible to become a licenced attorney by the time I'm done. My plans where actually to study another degree and work work work...and then later on earn an advanced degree depending on my working field (maybe a MPP, MPP/LLM or so). Most of my fellow students have applied/gotten accepted into LLM programs in top universities (Harvard, Yale, Oxford, USC, Berkeley, so on), but that's because they intend to return home with the degree and practice here. My concern is that these are two completely different law systems -roman v. common-, so although not entirely useless in the States... it just insn't strong enough. Truth is, I' rather have a degree with a little more weight in the US job market and that will prepare me better for domestic practice. </p>

<p>So now, I found the program that I love..JD in Columbia. I know my career path to be oriented towards public service and their Center for Public Interest Law is great, they have the LRAP program plus several others that make this school more and more fit for me. I'm planning on applying Early Decision, because pretty much if I were to continue my law training...it would have to be here. I have very good grades, and ranking. Have never taken or prepared for LSAT's, but intend to. I've worked closely with my Dean (he teaches as well) and with several other teachers. I'm currently writing a thesis on International Humanitarian Law and conducting a research on the subject. And most of my EC and work experience is law-oriented for it is my actual major (although I have heard this doesn't really matter). In my case, as for many people, money is an issue. But I think that if it's worth it, it's money well spent. </p>

<p>So I'd like to hear from you opinions. Do you think I should wait a year or two before actually trying out for the JD (more work experience or so)? Does applying ED give me a better shot? Will they look at my overall picture or just numbers? Are you currently a student and love it/hate it? Are you familiar with the Center of Public Interest and say it's not worth it/great? Is FA good/bad/ugly?</p>

<p>This message is soooo long, but I just want to give a little insight on my situation before I start asking all the questions. </p>

<p>Thanksss!</p>

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<p>Also, how much in advance should I start practicing for LSAT. I was hoping on start now and take them on October, to be in time for the ED deadline.</p>

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<p>I answered your post about the LSAT in the other forum, I’ll give the other parts a shot. I’m no expert, but I have been looking into law school for months now.</p>

<p>I’m planning on law school directly out of undergrad. Work experience is not a necessity if you feel like you are ready for law school. It seems quite pointless to me because your expected income is much greater after you earn your JD.</p>

<p>ED slightly improves your chances, but it’s not a significant factor.</p>

<p>They do take a look at the whole picture, but numbers are still the bread and butter behind it. If you do not have at least 25th percentile numbers and are not an underrepresented minority, your odds are slim. If your numbers are around the median, the “softs” as they call it may be a deciding factor that pushes you in or out, in your case likely in.</p>

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<p>I’m URM… on both sides. As for the 25th% numbers that kinda worries me. I’m sending my info to CAS because it seems so much easier that way (and because Columbia requires this) and they have them sent to authenticate and evaluate. I have a 2.8 GPA on a 3.0 scale, which is quite good (I’ve been Dean’s List each year, and I’m a quarter away from graduation so I’m thinking I’ll be Summa Cum Laude), but I’m not sure how they’ll calculate it. I know not many people have GPA above mine, or at least no one has a perfect 3.0. I’m so worried!</p>

<p>Where are you planning on attending?</p>

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<p>I am confused. Are you planning on applying to Columbia Law this cycle or are you planning on applying to Columbia CAS for a second degree.</p>

<p>Please keep in mind that you are not eligible for financial aid (other than stafford loans) should you pursue a second degree and be admitted to Columbia CAS.</p>

<p>What type of URM are you? African Americans, Mexicans, Puerto Ricians are under represented in law schools.</p>

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<p>Columbia is not good for public interest.</p>

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<p>@sybbie719: no. I was saying I intended to pursuit a second degree. But I’m actually considering not doing so and instead, apply to Law School (JD). In part, I’m reconsidering the second degree option because it narrows the college list (most have strict admissions policies against second degrees) and also because of FA holdbacks.
I’m URM from South America (mom) and Spain (grandparents) so very hispanic on that side. And although my father is completely USA, but on his side he’s Asian/Pacific Islander. </p>

<p>@flowerhead: thanks for the imput. Which do you consider good then? As this option of attending Law Schools keeps growing on me… I think I’d like to consider a few other options as well. Keeping in mind my goal is Public Service (which includes federal government or even the military). </p>

<p>@LSU8888Btw. If it doesn’t really make a difference if I apply ED or not, I’ll wait a little longer to take the LSAT so I can prepare better. So please let me know how you do on October. Best wishes!</p>

<p>Thanks…</p>

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<p>btw sybbie… I was reading a post on another thread where you stated that:</p>

<p>"When looking for an undergrad program, try really hard not to enroll in a “pre-law” program "</p>

<p>This concerns me a little. Although my bachelor’s degree is not pre-law, it’s actually Law. And by this I restate that by the time I’ve completed it I will be eligible to recieve my licence to practice law (no bar exam required in this country so it’s a given actually). And I’ve tried my best to include electives in all sorts of things. </p>

<p>In my case, would you still consider this to be a negative? And if you do please why, the obvious to me is because it’s best to bring a broad range of knowledge. But I’d like to hear your opinion…</p>

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<p>Yale, Harvard, NYU, Michigan, Berkeley, Fordham, Brooklyn, CUNY.</p>

<p>(You should take CLS over Fordham, Brooklyn, and CUNY if you have the choice, but all of the above schools set you up decently for public interest work).</p>

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<p>@flowerhead: i like your list of Yale, Harvard, NYU, Michigan, Berkeley, Fordham, Brooklyn, CUNY. I have no particular interest in NYC, so if you come across other suitable options for me, I’d really appreciate if you let me know. Meanwhile I will look into these. </p>

<p>Thankyou!</p>

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<p>^The Fordham, Brooklyn, CUNY advice for PI is terrible advice. Go elsewhere.</p>

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<p>They’re actually pretty good for public interest. I know this because I’ve seen the lists of people selected for fellowships and important people at prestigious public interest organizations. Again, I wouldn’t take them over CLS (or any other T14), but it’s not necessarily the death knell if one has to go to one of those schools.</p>

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<p>@boston1993: all advice and comments are welcome. I would just ask you that if you consider some advice terrible, then please mention some you find more suitable or better. A friend’s sister is currently in Fordham, but I haven’t heard much of her experience there… I’d like to ask her when she gets back though. Please do give me your opinion on good PI programs you know about.</p>

<p>The reason I would consider Fordham is mainly that I come from a catholic background and have attended catholic schools (although not jesuit, both my high school and current univerisity are accredited international catholic schools). But maybe in this line of thought I’d consider Georgetown. Any thoughts on this school choice as well?</p>

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Obviously you have the T14>all, which goes for essentially every prospective job. Unless, we’re dealing with situations where one wants to work in Texas, in which case it would be smart to go with Texas over basically everywhere except perhaps YHSC. </p>

<p>When we’re dealing with PI, the t14 is important, but you have to take some schools out. Harvard, Columbia, Chicago, Penn, Northwestern, UVA, Duke, and Cornell are the more firm/business-oriented law schools. Not to say that you can’t get PI from these schools, you obviously can, it’s just that the LRAP here is less than stellar and there aren’t too many kids like you that want to go into PI. The best law schools for PI are Yale, followed by Stanford/NYU, followed by Boalt (Cal), followed by Michigan/Gtown. If you can get into Yale, you obviously would go with Yale over any of these schools, even if you get a full ride elsewhere. Yale’s LRAP will basically eliminate all loans. After Yale though, you can basically choose between the other five schools based on your geographic and personal preferences, as not one school would give you a major leg up over the other schools.</p>

<p>However, not everyone can get into the t14. After the t14, you basically want to go to whichever school allows you to graduate with the least debt. In no specific order, there is: Northeastern, American, Lewis&Clark, CUNY, Brooklyn, and UCLA. If you don’t like any of these schools, just go to whichever school will allow you to graduate with the least debt. I wouldn’t really include Fordham, seeing as how they exist solely to feed into NYC BigLaw – I’d go with one of the lower ranked schools I mentioned above where you will get more grants and more of a PI slant.</p>

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I basically answered these questions above. But yeah, GTown is a great choice. I’d go with Gtown over Chicago/NW/Penn/UVA/Duke/Cornell (for PI), for example, but definitely go with Harvard or Columbia over Gtown – unless Gtown offers you a full ride or something like that.</p>

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<p>It’s great. All this info is just awesomee…really. Thank you. Helps narrow down universities… I’ve pretty much stated in my first post where I stand and all. But anyways, I’d like to know if I were aiming to Yale (or Columbia or any of the first choice law schools you’ve all mentioned) and besides great numbers -i’m working on the gpa and i’ll worry later for the lsats- what else could I do to have a better position?</p>

<p>It’s a little hard to find international internships from where I’m living at currently, locally it’ pretty scarce too (but still available). As I mentioned before, I would think I have a good standing compared to my fellow classmates… and several will be attending big shot schools (as I mentioned before) for LLM’s. But I would like to have an edge before applying for the JD. Maybe there’s threads about this already, but I can’t help but ask.</p>

<p>Would you recommend me seeking a second degree or would this be a waste? Any other sort of masters degree? Or pursuit a language scholarship (which i’d love to get anyways) or just try out right away for law school? I’d like to be as strong prospect as I possibly can… specially to seek FA.</p>

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<p>btw I just read another thread, where numbers are stated as THE most important factor ever in admissions. point taken. Are all T14 schools the same, no holistic approach of the overall student? Yes, I will strive for the best numbers… but if there’s anymore pluses I can achieve, I’d like to know. Specially with my government/public service goal approach.</p>

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<p>

Yale and Stanford are essentially the only law schools in the country that <em>really</em> review applicants holistically. For Yale, you will need some awesome EC’s. I’m talking about Rhodes/Marshall Scholar, a PhD, an author, a URM that has overcame major obstacles in life, and other amazing EC’s. For Stanford, you’re gonna need some great EC’s as well. SGA President, Peace Corps, Teach for America, etc. I know a couple of years ago, I believe 6 out of 12 Marshall scholars who applied to Yale were rejected. Just don’t try to set your sights on YHS or bust – these schools are out of reach for most people. Though, after Yale and Stanford – law school admissions are almost entirely numbers based (LSAT and GPA). After Y and S, great ec’s won’t help you too much – good/average ec’s won’t affect you negatively or positively – and doing no ec’s will hurt you a little bit, though not a lot. As long as you’re semi-involved in whatever activities you enjoy, and have a great LSAT/GPA, law schools will admit you. Though, there is one school that loves work experience, and it is very hard to get admitted straight from UG – and that school is Northwestern. I wouldn’t recommend you applying to Northwestern if you’re interested in PI anyway. </p>

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Nah, none of these things will do much of anything for you. Honestly, having a 169 instead of a 168 on the LSAT would help you more than the above. </p>

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Yale and Stanford absolutely take a holistic approach. Other than that, the only school that cares about work experience is Northwestern. No other schools out of the t14 even attempt at taking a holistic approach, it’s completely all numbers after the t14. It would be smart to volunteer with non-profits and charities during UG anyway. I don’t think it will help you too much with regards to law school admissions, but it will slightly help you getting an interview with a PI employer after law school. Just make sure that none of your ec’s take away from your GPA.</p>

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For law school admissions purposes, you are not considered a URM.</p>

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<p>Michigan and Berkeley do. It doesn’t approach Yale and Stanford, but it isn’t quite Columbia/NYU/Georgetown.</p>

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<p>@bluedevilmike: then what does? I was born and raised abroad (military bases abroad) and have stayed abroad up untill college (which I’m in right now), and hold citizenships of all of the above (the country I was born in and my mother’s as well). So it doesn’t really get more URM, unless I weren’t a US citizen and was 100% foreign.</p>