<p>Columbia was once (50 years ago) considered on par with Harvard with stuff like the Manhattan Project, brilliant professors/scientists working there, and the largest endowment in the country-- until the 1960's riots that kinda sent it all to hell. But recently, especially in the last two decades, it seems that Columbia's popularity is rising precipitously once again through achievments like winning the most Nobels out of any University in the world and this year have the lowest acceptance rate (8.9%) of any Ivy, MIT, and Stanford. </p>
<p>And I think it's mostly agreed that the Ivy prestige rankings are more or less (note: not neccesarily quality of education):</p>
<p>Harvard
Yale
Princeton</p>
<p>Columbia (+Wharton)</p>
<p>Penn CAS
Dartmouth
Brown
Cornell</p>
<p>Question is, from your own personal experience (friends applying or whatnot), does Columbia seem to be on the upward trend? HYPMSC (C being Columbia not Caltech) someday? Anecdotally, I know quite a couple of people turning down HYPMS for Columbia and many admitted to HYPMS and not Columbia (and vice versa).</p>
<p>I wouldn't worry about it. Columbia's stature on the college scene is already exceedingly high. Wondering whether Columbia will someday catch up to HYPS in prestige is like wondering whether Paul Allen will someday be as rich as Bill Gates. These are pointless questions because Paul Allen is already fabulously rich, and Columbia is already hugely prestigeous.</p>
<p>I agree with Scipio. Columbia is a great school in its own right. There is no need to try and join the HYPSM club. All this talk about admit rates and nobel prizes is a bit off-putting (it seems like you're trying too hard). You really should just enjoy the wonderful 4 years you will have there and talk about that!</p>
<p>Admit rates are probably the worst measure of a college's quality - its as much a factor of location as it is a measure of prestige...instead, look at measures of the strength of the incoming student body.</p>
<p>Of course, there too you will see that Columbia is a great institution - obviously one of the best undergrads in the country, but still lagging a little bit behind HYPSM. Its still around the same level as Penn, Dartmouth, Duke, and Brown - not any significantly better and certainly not any worse.</p>
<p>LakeWashington, sorry if I offended you by saying Columbia still lagged a little behind HYPSM...I was just looking at SAT scores, national merit scholars, Rhodes/Marshall/Truman scholars, feeder rates into top law/biz/med schoosl, etc. etc. etc. basically every relevant measure of undergrad strength. My apologies for looking at facts and not speaking based solely off of opinion. </p>
<p>Columbia isn't significantly better/diferent than Dartmouth, Duke, Penn, or Brown - basically even with them in all measures of quality. And no one would say those schools are not lagging behind HYPSM.</p>
<p>Thoughtprocess, when one attempts to fashion a sculpture of fine art, it's best to use the chisel more than the hammer. In other words, choose your descriptions carefully and not so broadly. I don't believe any credible professional in higher education would so loosely employ the term "lagging" when comparing and contrasting Columbia, Harvard, Yale and Penn.</p>
<p>I must say, "lagging" is a grossly inappropriate word for this.</p>
<p>Presuming there is some universal ideal towards which all universities are linearly progressing is like some twisted love child of marx/hegel and US News...</p>
<p>Columbia2011, Columbia is already considered a superb university that does not need to be seen in the category of Harvard or Yale to be recognized as superb.</p>
<p>Yeah, I feel "lagging" is pretty accurate. Columbia is still in good company - its student body is as strong as those of the rest of the Ivy League, Duke, Chicago, and other amazing, highly-respected schools that "lag" behind HYPSM.</p>
<p>Columbia has the same BIG attractive factor as does NYU, another school becoming much more selective: the Big Apple. </p>
<p>Many kids want to spend four years in NYC, but OTOH, just as many prefer the rural backwoods of NH. Of course, Columbia has LOT more to offer than NYU, but my point is that some applicants are drawn to the City first, and the colleges second. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that (many kids want to leave the snow belts and go to college in the sun), but don't assume selectivity equals greater 'prestige'.</p>
<p>btw: if you separate Wharton, which I would not, it would go on the top of your list, IMO.</p>
<p>According to the Wikipedia, the Manhattan Project briefly had its office in the Federal Building in downtown Manhattan and acquired its name that way.</p>
<p>Columbia is absolutely on par with Brown, Dartmouth, and Penn. NOTHING I've ever seen indicates otherwise, in fact Columbia is often the lowest among these in many ways (ie. recruiting and grad placement).</p>
<p>Having attended Columbia for a year and transferred, I would argue that Columbia lags behind my other school (Dartmouth) in many ways.</p>
<p>COlumbia College plus SEAS Admit rate is 10.4% not "lagging", but strictly speaking behind only Harvard and Yale. GS (non-traditional students) and BC (affliated and has its own admissions, Financial Aid, Alumni club, Board of trustees etc.) are NOT a part of Columbia in the traditional sense. Also, Columbia University Faculty have won many Nobel prizes in the last 10 years, e. g. Horst Stormer (Physics) Richard Axel (Medicine), Edmund Phelps (Economics), Joseph Stiglitz (economics-although he just came to Columbia), Orhan Pamuk (literature-new Faculty addition in SIPA), Eric Kandel (Medicine), William Vickrey (Economics-awarded 1996 now deceased), RObert Merton (SEAS grade-Economics 1997/I know this is not fair, but it's a recent one), RObert Mundell (Economics-1999), Richard Hamilton (foundation for Poincare Proof-over 40, but would have received Fields Medal otherwise with Pearlman). Slipper always talks having been a student for one year and then a student at CBS....how many people had diffrent college experiences after freshman year, e.g. once you get into the actual college community, activites, major etc? I don't care how many people you know who went to a school...it's not the same as having attended for FOUR YEARS. Stop the CU Bashing...BTW Columbia J-school=#1, Law Shcool=4 or 5, B-school=2 or 3 in most rankings not named US News, SIPA, Teachers COlleg=#1 (US NEws :P etc. Endowment growing (see Kluge $400 Million future donation)... What is wrong with playing of the fact that Columbia is located in NYC (the greatest city by an objective measure in the US and maybe, just maybe the world)? Part of the college experience is gaining real-world (read internship) knowledge while in college to apply to various fields. While it is true any IVY will allow one to be competitive for a Wall-Street position, most other industries require work experience prior to the entry level job, e.g. Journalism, TV, Marketing, Fashion, etc. Perhaps all students want to go to Wall Street? BTW, don't people apply to Harvahd simply because its HArvard? What value doe s that add..</p>
<p>His point wasn't that NYC is bad, it was that students who actually attend aren't neccesarily any stronger than the rest of the Ivies or similar level schools.</p>