Columbia vs. Cornell for Mathematics and/or Physics

College Search & Selection
1

Hello all. I was recently accepted to Columbia CC and Cornell A&S, and I am struggling to come to a decision between the two. I plan to double major in mathematics and physics (as of now I’m not exactly sure which one I like better, but I’m more theory-oriented), with the eventual goal of attending a good graduate school and getting a PhD. Of course these are both great schools, but neither is particularly well-known for its programs in these areas, and they seem to be on approximately equal footing.

Columbia is generally considered to be the more “prestigious” school when it comes to name recognition, but I’m not sure how helpful this would really be for graduate school admissions. Of course, what really stands out about Columbia is the Core curriculum. I’m not exactly thrilled about the Core, but I think I would enjoy it overall; my main worry is that it will get in the way of my major classes, especially if I plan to double major. I would likely only be able to take one course each in mathematics and physics for my first few semesters, but I could potentially take honors courses early on and end up taking a few graduate courses as a senior.

Cornell’s departments are somewhat bigger than Columbia’s, and I suppose this brings its own pros and cons. The core requirements are also far more lenient, which would potentially allow me to take more classes in my major and make double majoring easier. However, I haven’t been able to find as much information regarding a typical sequence for a math/physics major at Cornell, so it’s difficult to say how accurate this assumption really is.

As for financial aid, Columbia would be considerably cheaper, at least as of now. Based on the preliminary aid offers, Columbia would cost me about $16,000-$18,000 per year, while Cornell would cost upwards of $30,000. I imagine this can be negotiated at least to some extent.

As an aside, I was also accepted at UVa as an Echols Scholar, where I would be free from all core requirements, but the cost (in-state!) would be higher than Columbia. I was also wait listed at Harvard, Yale, Princeton, UChicago, and Penn, but I won’t count on getting into any of these.

I would greatly appreciate the input of anyone with experience with either of these two schools or with these fields in general.

2

Columbia is in NYC, and Cornell is in Ithaca. Just night and day apart in terms of what your college experience would be like living in these two places. Surely you have a preference for one location over the other, right? They’re both wonderful, but do you want a large green (and snowy) campus up the street from a small city, or do you want to be in the heart of the biggest city in the USA? Answering that question will give you a clue to where you should go. Also, take those price differences seriously.

3

Both Cornell and Columbia have very well-known physics departments. Check out this list of Nobel Prize winners sorted by university affiliations.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_laureates_by_university_affiliation
Either can provide an excellent preparation for graduate study in physics or math.

I would discourage you from weighing the ease of double majoring in your decision. Since math and physics overlap strongly there is no need to double major. Start out taking courses in both and choose the one you prefer when it comes time to commit to a major. Grad programs would prefer a strong major in one subject than spreading yourself thinly between two majors.

If you are attracted to Cornell, you might be able to get them to match Columbia’s financial aid offer. Also keep in mind that life in Manhatten is much more expensive than in Ithaca.

4

I see they’ve improved those Nobel laureate lists… It used to annoy me that Columbia listed the head of the physics dept. at my school, where he taught for about 34 years, because he spent a sabbatical leave at Columbia.
Now they’ve broken that out in the lists. It is not surprising that someone might want to spend a year in New York or Chicago for a year on sabbatical, but that is very different from making or spending one’s career there. A distinction that can now be made.

Not taking anything away from Columbia which is attractive for “permanent” faculty as well, as the list shows, not just visitors. But no need to overstate what is already a good case. This is better now.

5

The environments are very different. You would have a much more prototypical campus-based college experience at Cornell. Versus the urban experience of NYC. Living in Ithaca is much cheaper. But not $12,000 cheaper.
At Cornell my senior math and physics courses all had grad students in them. You’ll probably want to take the "honors "sections of the intro physics sequence. Also, at Cornell you have the resources of the departments of engineering and engineering physics, as well. This may be important, as your interests change. For example, I roomed with a grad students who switched form physics to Materials Science in the engineering college.
.
Columbia’s department is smaller and some have cited this as an advantage.
My experience at Cornell was, the people who were good enough got the experience and opportunities that they needed and deserved, and went on to great future destinations.

Cornell is a large school with a diverse student body. In your dorm there will be people like you, and the gamut of other Arts & Science majors. But also fledgling architects, hotel administration majors, animal science majors, nutrition majors, engineers., etc. You may like the diversity, coming in contact with a wide variety of different types of people,.
Or you may prefer a more homogeneous environment consisting solely of arts & sciences majors.

As for: “However, I haven’t been able to find as much information regarding a typical sequence for a math/physics major at Cornell>”
You must mean specifically for a dual major? Because the major requirements seem to be pretty clear:
http://physics.cornell.edu/prospective-students
http://physics.cornell.edu/sites/physics/files/2015-Courses-at-a-Glance.pdf
I imagine the math sequences are also spelled out, you just have to patch them together.

also : “…neither is particularly well-known for its programs in these areas,”

?? what areas?? Surely you don’t mean physics…

6

Any of your choices will prepare you for getting into a good grad school program- and I think that you are underselling both Columbia & Cornell on the relative strength of their physics programs.

Take the Core element of Columbia seriously: it is a very big part of your experience.

Depending on the uni, most physics programs have enough math requirements that you can pick up a math minor almost incidentally.

Don’t get too tied up in the major/minor/double major nomenclature - for physics or math phd programs the specific classes you have taken, the physics/math GRE and the research you have done will matter way more than whether your major combo (have seen this watching this years cohort of physics and math phd applicants).

7

Thanks for all the advice so far everyone, and thank you for the links @monydad. I hadn’t seen that page, but it’s very helpful. I suppose I am underselling the two schools; I guess I just meant that they’re not quite on the level of Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc. I’m certainly thrilled to have a choice between the two.

8

The point is that you are wrong: Cornell and Columbia are on the same level- in the top 10 for math and physics. The differences between #2 and #6 are truly not meaningful- especially at the undergraduate level!- and they move around most years. And at the post-grad level, they are even less so. I know people right now who are turning down #2 for #9 - b/c the program is better for them, and they are on the same level.

9

Let’s break it down. The differences you need to look at are:

  1. Location. Would you rather be in Manhattan or in Ithaca? If you haven't visited both campuses yet, do so ASAP.
  2. Curriculum/Course Requirements. Make a spreadsheet of the EXACT courses (or choice of courses or course categories) you'd have to take each semester. Laying it out on paper can make it obvious which curriculum you prefer.
  3. Cost. Ask (nicely) Cornell if they would match the F/A offer of Columbia. If they can't come close—say, within $5l/year—then your choice is obvious. You'll have to go with Columbia.

BTW, I did my undergrad at Cornell and grad at Columbia, albeit in a different field.

10

I would also urge you to consider more than these departments.
Here are true stories I’ve observed over my life:

  • Self-determined high school science demi-god barely scrapes by in college
    -Guy goes into Ivy league school intent on physics major, gets turned on instead by Art History. Comes out with eventual PhD in Art History
    -Brilliant HS student graduates early with six zillion AP courses amazing SATs took actual college calculus-based math and physics courses while still in 11th grade. Winds up as mediocre -to-bad math major in college, subsequently goes to law school.
  • Grad student at good physics PhD program leaves to take job in financial engineering.

The point being, your goals and interests may change, based on what you are exposed to and how you do there.