I’ll be applying to college next year, and I’m deciding between Columbia (if I get in) or NYU. Columbia is definitely more prestigious, and that’ll probably help me on grad school applications, but NYU has the second-best programs in the world for Math and Philosophy, which I’d double-major in there. Also, at NYU I’d probably be one of the top students, while at Columbia I’d be average, maybe slightly above. What do you think?
Current NYU student here. No doubt our philosophy department is amazing. I’m only a first year taking an intro to philosophy course and my professor is literally top of his field (Ned Block – famous for Blockhead Response and a leading critic of functionalism).
NYU on a whole is a massively underrated school with some majorly underrated programs (including its applied mathematics department). You will receive an amazing education here in those subject areas and if you do honors majors you will have an opportunity to work directly with some of these top profs.
Let’s be honest though… Columbia > NYU. Prestige matters a lot in this world and if I were to do it all over again I would not have applied ED to NYU (regret not applying to Columbia). At the undergraduate level specific programs rankings don’t matter quite as much and you never know if you’ll actually stick with your planned course of study. Sure NYU is an amazing amazing option for these two programs, but I really couldn’t advise you to turn down Columbia for NYU.
@deller123 what are you majoring in? Also, do you know anything about their honors program, merit aid, and research opportunities? I’d rather be a big fish in a small pond, so to speak, and get my prestige from a top graduate school.
@Goldz09 it is not just about prestige. more importantly it is about quality of the undergraduate body, also opportunities in terms of research, jobs etc, access to faculty and individual attention. Not that NYU is not a great school but I can’t imagine turning down an ivy+ school for NYU undergrad. (other than financial aid reasons). maybe if you get into some very exclusive honors program NYU has where you would get more access to opportunities and individual attention.
@Penn95 yeah, I’d probably be part of their honors program.
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Hi. I am a student in Columbia Univ (almost graduating)
Columbia has world class math, philosophy, and economics.
I would argue these fields that NYU is good at, Columbia is just as good (maybe not in Applied Math as much but still world class)
Grad school Math Ranking:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-science-schools/mathematics-rankings
Columbia Univ #9
NYU #9
Outside Applied Math, Columbia Univ is considered a better place to study mathematics (especially pure math).
That stated, applied math undergrad in Columbia is more oriented towards applied physics while NYU applied math is more oriented towards applied statistics.
Grad school Philosophy Ranking:
http://www.phds.org/rankings/philosophy
Columbia Univ: #2~9
NYU: #6~15
Grad school Economics Ranking:
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-humanities-schools/economics-rankings
Columbia Univ: #10
NYU: #11
Academic wise in grad school, both are peer schools. BUT… we are NOT talking about grad school.
I will be honest with you. Like you yourself implicitly admitted, Columbia undergrad is a much more academically motivated body in comparison to that of NYU undergrad body.
SAT in NYU: 1910~2150
SAT in Columbia Univ: 2160~2330 (with half the student body all getting 750 on all subjects or higher. Basically, 1 error per section in average)
And I believe the average SAT 2 is around 3 or more in Columbia Univ (the school made it mandatory to even apply until last year). I don’t think NYU reports but from my high school experience, it doesn’t seem necessary at all in the procedure. That stated, both schools have SAT 2 as optional so ignore this…
From data alone, I think it’s safe to state especially with the acceptance rate that the 20th percentile of NYU students has similar SAT scores to that of the 75th percentile of Columbia Univ. So yes, the general body in Columbia Univ is noticeably higher in comparison to the general body in NYU.
That stated, this should NOT be the reason you are hesitant in accepting a school.
If you cannot handle undergrad already (especially with this mindset), then how are you going to handle grad school? I will note that Columbia Univ feeds Columbia Univ, Harvard, UCBerkeley, U of Oxford, Stanford, UPenn, Johns Hopkins Univ. I am not sure about NYU but I am sure you can google all that.
Columbia after graduation: https://www.careereducation.columbia.edu/sites/cce/files/2015_gss–cc__seas-ug_.pdf
NYU after graduation: http://www.nyu.edu/content/dam/nyu/wasserman/documents/life-beyond-the-square-report-2016.pdf
I will note that the major differences between Columbia Univ and NYU is the culture. Are you the downtown person (NYU) or a more traditional campus oriented in uptown person (Columbia Univ)
NYU Applied Math has always been recognized world wide as arguably the best if not second best in its subfield and yes, undergrads do get a noticeable bump from this recognition.
Similar to NYU Philosophy.
However, do note that Columbia Univ in grad school remains just as good in these fields so this should not be a factor in your decisions.
And yes, it is ‘easier’ to get a higher GPA at most NYU courses. I had many of my NYU friends vouch for this and I too have looked at their courseworks. And do also note the mean gpa is NYU is higher than the mean gpa in Columbia .
That stated, go for the place of your fit. Both schools are world class enough that you should not be in much disadvantage when applying to grad schools.
Don’t worry about ‘can i succeed there?’
If you can get accepted at either places, I’m sure you are then more than capable of performing well in either institutions.
Also, being top in either place is incredibly difficult. Don’t go into NYU with the mindset that you can top there. If you are going for the honors program, then I am sure it is just as difficult. (Do note that Columbia also has its own honors system and its honors physics is infamous for having heavy drop outs. The honors math is far more do-able fortunately as it only uses Apostol level book for Calculus.)
And don’t fret too much. And I would daresay not to pick undergrad out of ‘how can I maximize my chance to grad school’ right now.
As much as grad school sounds appealing, the current job market in grad school is a … tad horrible. Companies don’t seem to care as much as they used to about graduate degrees. Academia is pretty oversaturated. In fact, most of my associate professors (who cannot become tenured) are from Princeton, UChicago, MIT, Columbia, etc. so ya…
That said, I will state that NYU Courant has my respects. Just note that universities generally discourage their undergrad students going to their grad school especially in fields like mathematics, philosophy, and economics. So just doing well at NYU guarantees nothing for its grad school (much less with Columbia Univ in my opinion as a good gpa in Columbia Univ is more or less a ticket to top 5 grad schools).
Thanks for your detailed response @AccCreate ! I’ll definitely keep it in mind. At this point I’ll probably apply ED to Columbia, and it’s anyone’s guess if I’ll get in…I have the stats, but so does everyone else. But based on your reply and @deller123 it seems I’d be pretty happy attending NYU as well.