Columbia vs. Cornell vs. UPenn - Engineering

Colleges and Universities A-Z Columbia University
1

<p>Hey everyone, I'm trying to decide what university I should attend: Cornell, Columbia, or UPenn. I got into the engineering schools from all three. I would appreciate any advice on which school I should choose:</p>

<p>I guess you should know these things too:</p>

<ul>
<li>I don't care if I go somewhere rural or urban.</li>
<li>The more undergrad research opportunities, the better.</li>
<li>Doing some sort of Co-op/internship is very appealing to me.</li>
<li>I'm very interested in nanotech.</li>
<li>I'll probably go into either materials or applied physics; although, the possibility of doing a completely different engineering major does exist (people change majors all the time...).</li>
<li>I find liberal arts to be interesting and important, but remember I applied to engineering schools to be an engineer not an historian, etc.</li>
<li>I'm definitely going to grad school.</li>
</ul>

<p>Your advice can be on anything, but if you could note on the pros and cons of each school and then give your verdict I'd appreciate it.</p>

<p>If you need any more info please ask. If I can think of anything else to add I'll post it. Thanks for all of your help!!!</p>

2

<p>Cornell is the best for pure engineering. Columbia is the best for a combined education in engineering and the liberal arts, and applied sciences. Penn Engineering is the best for transfering into Wharton ;) .
I know Columbia Engineering has a large nanotech initiative going right now, and will EASILY offer you the most internships/research possibilities within the university and the city. Columbia also has the best grad school placement of the three schools.
Also, another thing to note is that Cornell engineering is pretty much stationary, while Columbia's is moving up in almost every field, while Penn's is losing attention to the more stylish schools there- Wharton and Arts and Sciences. Penn does have great Bioengineering though.</p>

3

<p>From what I know, Cornell and Columbia both have excellent applied physics programs. I've been told that Cornell is ranked number one, but what are rankings? Columbia SEAS is much smaller than Cornell Engineering, and their Applied Physics department is over 20+ strong. Columbia's also pushing for more undergraduate research. </p>

<p>However, I was at Columbia this weekend for the Days on Campus program, and a ChemE prof (I'm interested in chemical engineering, myself) said that URIP makes getting undergraduate research sound easier than it really is. On the other hand, during a presentation, the chair of the civil engineering department sounded eager to get undergraduates in on research. It varies with the department.</p>

<p>While I was applying to schools, a recent alumnus told me that writing applied physics as my intended major would make me a sure shot into SEAS since they graduate fewer than ten students each year. I'm unsure as to the verity of that statement, but assuming that's true, professors should be eager to take on undergraduates in research projects.</p>

<p>You would do well to call a professor at each of your schools to learn more about such opportunities and to address any concerns you have. I say call because in my past experience not all professors have been good with e-mail.</p>

<p>Cheers</p>

4

<p>
[quote]
Also, another thing to note is that Cornell engineering is pretty much stationary, while Columbia's is moving up in almost every field, while Penn's is losing attention to the more stylish schools there- Wharton and Arts and Sciences.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>A patently absurd statement. Define how a school "loses attention"</p>

<p>The newest building on campus (Skirkanich Hall) is a SEAS building. Is that losing attention?</p>

5

<p>JohnnyK, you seem to have an infatuation with the Columbia board, ;)</p>

6

<p>It's either that or write my final papers ;)</p>

7

<p>I'm procrastinating as well. Got a BIIIIG exam coming up, but somehow I just can't focus, lol... facebook is evil btw, haha</p>

8

<p>I think Cornell has the best engineering among the ivies. Also, it's much easier to tranfer between schools at Cornell if you change your mind than at Columbia. I don't know too much about Penn.</p>

9

<p>
[quote]
However, I was at Columbia this weekend for the Days on Campus program, and a ChemE prof (I'm interested in chemical engineering, myself) said that URIP makes getting undergraduate research sound easier than it really is.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>were you talking to koberstein? he's a bit of a pessimist so while he is extremely smart and helpful for incoming chem.e's, its best to take some things of his with a grain of salt.</p>

<p>the truth about URIP is that if a professor doesnt mind undergrads in his/her lab then they get published in the little booklet. from that point on it is up to you to initiate contact and actually try and get the position. its not like you say you want to and its yours but its by no means hard</p>

10

<p>I spoke with Dr. Leonard, who appears to have a reputation for his stringency.</p>

<p>Last time I spoke with Koberstein, he seemed disappointed that more Columbia undergraduates didn't approach him for research opportunities, citing that a Fordham and a SUNY undergrad both did research under him and were subsequently published.</p>

11

<p>ok yea, leonard is even worse...he's been working here for 40 or 50 years and i think is a bit jaded...why i dont know tho</p>

12

<p>Cornell Eng. is HARD CORE (and I mean really hard core), and I believe Penn Eng. has similar curriculum for most eng. majors as in Cornell. What appeals to me about Columbia SEAS is its well-rounded education (lib. arts courses lover here) with a fair engineering foundation.
The bottom line is that if you love PURE engineering, go to Cornell. But otherwise, choose one of the other two.</p>

13

<p>"Cornell is the best for pure engineering. Columbia is the best for a combined education in engineering and the liberal arts, and applied sciences."</p>

<p>Unless, of course, you decide to take some liberal arts classes at Cornell. </p>

<p>"I know Columbia Engineering has a large nanotech initiative going right now"
Cornell already had theirs, among the top few in the world. </p>

<p>"will EASILY offer you the most internships/research possibilities within the university and the city."
Give me a break. Cornell is so much larger and has so many more engineering students in a more respected engineering school. Their whole focus is on research. I think you're just making stuff up. I disagree with the "easily" more internships in the city at columbia, I know for certain that employers would gladly travel half a day total to get to Cornell where they can interview substantially more engineering students than at Columbia. Besides, they pretty much have to with Cornell's big Co-op program. </p>

<p>"Columbia also has the best grad school placement of the three schools."
can you show me where you got this??? I'd love for some proof, thank you!!</p>

<p>"Also, another thing to note is that Cornell engineering is pretty much stationary, while Columbia's is moving up in almost every field"
Cornell is #1 in the Ivy League and in the top few nationally. There ain't a whole lot of room to move up in. Columbia, on the other hand, has a bit of ground to catch up on.</p>

14

<p>Wow, students really go all out now to recruit prospective students.</p>

15

<p>Gomestar -</p>

<p>S Snack is a Columbia booster to the point of being tiresome and laughable. Makes lots of unsubstantiated boasts and pointless claims. Huge inferiority complex going.</p>

<p>To continue your response and help out the OP:</p>

<p>"...Columbia is bets for a combined education in engineering and the liberal arts"...</p>

<p>That's a silly statement. All three schools have great CAS units, all of which are similar to eachother in academic excellence. Columbia's Core, however, does offer a well integrated study of Western Civ; it can be replicated at other schools, but not in such a well organized, holistic manner. </p>

<p>Penn and Columbia have similar engineering schools (areas of focus, research funding, etc.). Grads of both schools tend to NOT become engineers, but use the analytical training to go to consulting or finance. </p>

<p>Either way, neither Penn or Columbia hold a candle to Cornell in engineering. Big Red is LIGHT YEARS ahead in this regard. Engineering at Cornell = Wharton at Penn relative to the other Ivies. There's no real competitor.</p>

<p>"...Columbia..nanotech initiative"</p>

<p>Check the Cornell and Penn engineering school sites. I think another post stated Cornell was ranked 9 and Penn was 14. Columbia was not close. </p>

<p>"internships/research...."</p>

<p>I'm not sure that a nanotech or any tech researcher thinks NYC is the place to be. Cambridge, Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, the NC Research Triangle all come to mind long before NYC for science and technology. And if one does want to be in NYC, the Cornell resume and Penn resume are at least as competitive in the Big Apple. </p>

<p>If you doubt that, check the lists of alumni in major positions at the top firms/institutions in NYC. Columbia isn't over representing, and certainly not relative to the other Ivies/Stanford/MIT (despite the fact that Columbia is the home town giant).</p>

<p>"...best grad placement..."
Nonsense. Check feeder school lists for Harvard's grad schools, Yale's Law, Penn Med, Law and business, etc. Columbia is in the top 10...but that's it. It's below Penn for the top law schools, for the top business schools, etc. Cornell is right along side Columbia. There are other posts in this thread which have exact reports re this issue. S Snacks claim is baseless (but if you have proof, i'd love to see it)</p>

<p>" Cornell is stationary"
Yeah dude....at the top of the pile. And staying there. Cornell has been top 6-8 each year since the rankings were compiled. In nano, they have also always been top 10. Cornell's strengths, the range of it's programs, the sheer power of it's name in engineering is compelling. In addition, unlike MIT or CalTech there's a superb university around the engineering school where you can study almost any concievable subject. The only place more prestigious and balanced is Stanford. But since you're not choosing between Stanford and these three, my advice (as a Penn alum) is Cornell >>>> Penn >> Columbia.</p>

<p>S Snack....it's so much fun to read your posts!!!! They always bring me a good laugh</p>

16

<p>Hello, I'm going to go to Columbia next year and I'm turning down Cornell.</p>

<ul>
<li>I don't care if I go somewhere rural or urban.</li>
</ul>

<p>I believe there are more opportunities in an urban environment than a rural one, for stuff other than engineering. I really liked Cornell when I visited, but I think I could not handle 4 years in the middle of nowhere, 2 would be fine, but after that, it would start to get old. You are most likely going to get your initial job in an urban environment, so I think it does the mind and body good to get acclimated. </p>

<ul>
<li>The more undergrad research opportunities, the better.</li>
</ul>

<p>So you want to do research, you can do that in any of these schools, if you seek it out. At Cornell there are going to be more people who are vying for on campus research, so you'll have less competition at Columbia, because there are less engineers total, and more of the engineers are focused on getting internships as opposed to research.</p>

<ul>
<li>Doing some sort of Co-op/internship is very appealing to me.</li>
</ul>

<p>I know Cornell has a big Co-op program where you still manage to graduate in 4 years. Columbia offers a ton of big city internships. You can't go wrong either way. I know Columbia sets aside Fridays for people who want to do internships, so you won't have any classes that day</p>

<ul>
<li>I'm very interested in nanotech.</li>
</ul>

<p>Sweet. That's the wave of the future. I know Cornell has a sweet lab for nanotech, and I'm not sure what Columbia has in that department, but don't forget your interests may change. </p>

<ul>
<li>I'll probably go into either materials or applied physics; although, the possibility of doing a completely different engineering major does exist (people change majors all the time...).</li>
</ul>

<p>Sweet. It seemed as if it was easier at Columbia to double major another form of engineering with materials, applied physics, or applied math with another feild, than Cornell. </p>

<ul>
<li>I find liberal arts to be interesting and important, but remember I applied to engineering schools to be an engineer not an historian, etc.</li>
</ul>

<p>Columbia's Core on the humanitees side for engineers only consists of Uwriting, LitHum/ContempCiv, ArtHum/MusicHum, and they encourage liberal arts minors. I feel as if that is a good balance. I think Cornell has similar distribution requirements. At Columbia you won't need to take a foreign langauge because you learn programming. My point is Columbia gives you material to talk about during cocktail parties, so you can break that nerdy engineer stereotype. </p>

<ul>
<li>I'm definitely going to grad school.</li>
</ul>

<p>IMO you are best off gaining some good working expereince after a year or two, and then going to a grad school. This is especially important if you plan on getting an MBA. Plus, your company might help pay (or pay for all) of your schooling, which is a big plus. </p>

<p>I think Cornell has a fantastic program, but I think Columbia was a better school for me because it gave me a better balance. Good luck deciding.</p>

17

<p>You indicate that your goal is to become an engineer involved in nanotoech, or possibly some other related fields.</p>

<p>As one measure, suggest you look at the number of upper-level courses actually being offered this semester in each of these engineering schools. Both in identified specific areas of interest, and overall. Latter is important because people frequently change their focus as they come to know more about particular sub-areas. Not from the catalog, from the actual registrar's list of what's really being offered.</p>

<p>In this regard, find out if seniors can take graduate-level courses, and how many additional courses this makes available. </p>

<p>Also consider the nature of their respective co-op programs. Number of students involved, companies that participate. If school-year internships are represented as a big selling point, ask to talk to current students doing school-year internships in nanotech. "Back in the day" neither NYC or PA were hotbeds of engineering generally, or micro-electronics specifically. Finance yes, engineering no. Actually, some high-tech companies were located around Ithaca. But I'm not current. Point is just don't just take someone's unsubstantiated word about this.</p>

<p>Similarly, I would not just accept unsubstantiated statements about undergraduate research opportunities. For one thing, each of these universities has grad students to conduct research. If you think this may be important to you, I suggest follow up specifically.</p>

<p>I would further suggest try to find out how many engineering companies come to campus to interview at the engineering school recruiting office for engineering jobs. Note I did not say finance companies for finance jobs.</p>

<p>I would also try to get some data on the proportion of graduates that actually seek work in engineering, as opposed to finance or totally unrelated fields. This can give you some notion of the committment of the school and its students to engineering.</p>

<p>If exposure to non-engineering courses, liberal arts education, well-rounded, etc. is important to you, compare how many outside electives can be taken at each program. I'm betting it's about the same, but I don't know for sure. Only Columbia will require specific courses in this regard though, I believe. You may want to take these specific courses. But maybe you'd rather choose exactly what liberal arts ( or other) courses you take instead of having these specific ones dictated to you.</p>

<p>Cornell's physical environment is drastically different than the others: campus-based social life at a large university in a small city, vs. relatively less direct on-campus life but in huge cities. Various pros and cons, will appeal variously to different people.</p>

18

<p>i'd just like to correct one point:

[quote]
Also, it's much easier to tranfer between schools at Cornell if you change your mind than at Columbia. I don't know too much about Penn.

[/quote]

you can argue till you're blue in the face, but it's fairly easy to change between Columbia College and SEAS, in both directions. I know plenty of students who have done it, and have never heard of someone mentioning that they wanted to but not getting in (obviously with some selection bias inherent there). that's just a silly point to try to make a comparison on.</p>