Columbia vs. JHU(Woodrow Wilson Fellowship) vs. Penn

Just for the record, JHU definitely has to compete with schools like Columbia, Penn and Brown for cross admits and JHU usually loses…

Not saying parchment is perfect but i am saying that 87% of cross admits among the thousands of parchment users chose Penn over JHU, 69% chose Columbia over JHU, and 91% chose Brown over JHU.

http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Johns+Hopkins+University&with=University+of+Pennsylvania

http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Johns+Hopkins+University&with=Columbia+University+in+the+City+of+New+York

http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Johns+Hopkins+University&with=Brown+University

so yeah, JHU is using money to lure students away from the ivies-- but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s not a good school worthy of consideration. Every school leverages its assets to attract students-- no shame in JHU using money to recruit talented students just because the Ivies can’t offer merit-scholarships due to the Ivy League Agreement.

@stevensPR You seriously need to calm down. The only person embarrassing themselves is you. Everything i have said is based on facts but sure call the facts you don’t agree with, inane…Btw the link you provided is another post where butthurt people dismiss what i am saying because they don’t like the truth…just like you are doing now.

Which part do you dispute? Do you honestly think that Hopkins does not lose most of its cross admits with the ivies, Stanford, MIT? It is not just HYPS, far from it. if it was just HYPS, Hopkins would not have an RD yield of 27%, while for Penn, Columbia it is 50%+, and for Brown, Dartmouth and Cornell it is in the 40% range. Also the Parchment data posted above by @PennCAS2014 tell the same story.

Just because you chose Hopkins over Columbia and Penn doesn’t mean that most people do (actually they don’t). It also doesn’t mean that Hopkins isn’t a great school or that it is unheard of to choose it over an ivy. But people every year choose a certain way for a variety of reasons and year after year the trend is that the majority of cross-admits turn down hopkins for stanford, MIT and the ivies. That is the truth. Just because you don’t like the truth you don’t get to attack people who are just relaying the facts.

@penn95 good to see alternative facts don’t just reside with trump, but with other penn alums too.

See here for more parchment truth:

http://www.parchment.com/c/college/tools/college-cross-admit-comparison.php?compare=Stanford+University&with=University+of+California%2C+Riverside

Seriously, give it up. You are universally seen as a dud for good measure.

@PennCAS2014 JHU has no need nor does it have money to lure people. It offers a total of 22 merit scholarships a year - it doesn’t break the bank with money to applicants like chicago or wustl or vandy or usc.

I’ve also shown hard cross-admit data that decisively contradicts parchment. To suggest parchment is truth is a bit childish - but you’re welcome to do your own research. It’s only penn alums that seem to have this need to elevate their school when the reputation simply isnt there. There’s only so many times you can plaster “ivy league” repeatedly on your literature materials unlike princeton or yale or harvard

@stevensPR lol once again deflecting, making silly comparisons and personal attacks. please get real.

no one said Parchment is perfect, but UC Riverside and Stanford do not have a big overlap in applicants. btw if you noticed the numbers for Stanford vs Riverside are in grey, which means that the split is not statistically significant, since they do not have enough samples (there are few people applying and admitted to both).

But even if Parchment is completely wrong (which it is not), yield rates do not lie (didn’t see you commenting on that). Especially since Hopkins and the ivies have a major overlap in applicants.

Every school needs to lure cross admits (even Harvard and Stanford try to lure cross admits from each other). A school that loses 73% of its RD admits definitely wants and tries to lure admits.

Where have you shown hard cross-admit data that decisively contradict parchment? lol. i d very much like to see them.

And why are you even bringing up Penn in this conversation, and who tried to elevate Penn specifically in this conversation? We simply stated a fact that Hopkins loses the cross-admit battle to the ivies, stanford,MIT. As I said that doesn’t mean Hopkins isn’t a great school.

I think it is clear who is insecure here…

Hi @stevensPR I’m sorry i’m not familiar with your posts about cross-admit data. I would be very interested in seeing it. If you wouldn’t mind pm-ing it to me, I’d love to take a look. I always like learning more about college admissions! That being said, I don’t disagree with the fact that parchment is imperfect, as acknowledged in my post. But for two schools like JHU and Penn, the data can be quite revealing. Comparing schools like UC Riverside and Stanford can be a little trickier, however, due to issues of sample size of cross admit data and other complicating factors that are likely more reflective of the applicant pools than the schools themselves. But again, Parchment isn’t perfect- but it is a lot of fun :wink:

Furthermore, I’m not saying that JHU is breaking the bank, and you’re correct that JHU has far fewer resources than many of the Ivies. However, I’m saying that, like most other schools outside of the Ivy League, it uses money to lure top students away from the Ivies, of which Penn, Columbia and Brown are three. There’s no shame in that; it’s just a fact of the game. Good schools need to use what they’ve got in a highly competitive market for the best high school students.

Finally, I think Penn’s reputation really speaks for itself. And at least in Penn’s viewbook available online (http://www.admissions.upenn.edu/images/uploads/docs/U37153_15_Viewbook.pdf) I only see the term “ivy league” mentioned in the page on athletics. But either way, you’ll have to forgive Penn for situating itself among its peers in its promotional materials if you’ve seen Penn publications I haven’t in which they talk about being an Ivy. It’s not like other schools aren’t proud of their affiliation (It is indeed an Ivy and it’s particularly proud of the history and tradition associated with its inclusion in the most elite brand in higher education). And Penn is not alone - the rest of the world just tends to lump the ivies and elites together as a group.

For example, the NY times did a piece on economic diversity at US colleges and grouped the 8 Ivies and “selected elite” schools (MIT, Stanford, Duke and Chicago) together. (https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/brown-university).

And when Slate wanted to report on how students from elite colleges were not applying to law schools in the same numbers, they chose to focus on those same universities as a group.(http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/03/14/fewer_elite_college_students_are_applying_to_law_school.html)

And when the colleges were asked to report on who their peers were, schools like Yale chose the 8 ivies,
MIT and Chicago (http://www.chronicle.com/interactives/peers-network).

And when a student gets into a handful of ivies, local newspapers tend to write stories about them because these schools have such powerful reputations.

I don’t think I could really elevate Penn’s reputation if I wanted to since you can’t go any higher than the top :wink:

@Penn95 I too can come on here and spout I’ll informed opinions and capitalize them. Does it make it fact? Nope. So cut it out. I have access to Stanford senate forum data in which parchment is shown to be categorically wrong with actual real cross admit data. I will send this and other data to select posters on here. In the mean time, stop spouting “facts”

@PennCAS2014 when jhu has 22 merit scholarships a year, it is trying to win admits away from Yale, Harvard and the top ivies - not penn

oh well if you’re sure then… 8-| – Perhaps if JHU uses a little more of that money to draw matriculants away from places like Columbia and Penn their RD yield will go up…

@PennCAS2014 at the end of the day does it matter? has jhu spent millions and flooded students with marketing materials like Chicago or wustl to artificially inflate selectivity? It has no desire to take 55% of the class ED like penn either

penn students are like Hopkins students. They both likely didn’t have hyps as an option. No shame in that

K- well none of that is particularly relevant so I’m about done here. I’ll finish by saying I don’t know if its likely that Penn students didn’t have HYPS as an option since I don’t have access to double-secret-probation-style cross admit data. I know a bunch of kids who turned down HYPS in some combination, myself included, to attend Penn and I know it turned out to be a great choice. I also know that in 2012 Penn wasn’t trying to build its undergraduate education to stand among the top 10 in the nation since it had already been there for over a decade… but every university has its own priorities:

Hopkins’ 10 by 2020 plan to make JHU a top ten undergraduate university: http://president.jhu.edu/wp-content/uploads/TenbyTwenty.pdf

but yeah… i bet JHU (unlike HYPS, Chicago, Duke, Stanford, and MIT) doesn’t have to work to lure cross admits from Brown, Penn, and Columbia… 8-|

@stevensPR Well you are not providing any actual facts to dispute my claims. I have seen Stanford senate notes where detailed cross admit data have been posted for HYPSM, but haven’t seen any including the other schools. Well if you are not willing to prove your claims then what are they worth? should we just take your word for it? (who sounds like trump now…)

Also why is parchment completely wrong? not 100% accurate i understand, but completely wrong? they have a very big sample size and they continuously get new data from cross-admit choices.

You still you haven’t commented on my yield rate point but ok…

Sorry to break it to you but while it is true that Penn loses a big part of its cross admits to HYPSM (all schools do), Hopkins loses a much bigger part and not only to HYPSM but all the ivies, Stanford, MIT. But I agree there is no shame in that.
But i don’t understand why you keep bringing up Penn…u seem intent on turning this into a d-measuring contest between Penn and Hopkins…get over it.

And with that said I am also done because this whole thing is ridiculous, you are hostile and say one crazy thing after another and it is not helping the OP at all.

@popper345 As I said before and as some other posters have also said on here, Columbia seems like your dream school, so you should go for it since there is no issue with cost. Hopkins is not providing you with anything you can’t have at Columbia and chances are you will be happier there not only because it is your dream school but also because it is a much nicer setting.

Whew things got a bit heated…but thanks to everyone for your thoughts! After visiting both campuses and talking to some of the current students and teachers I have decided that Columbia is the better school for me and I’m so excited to be joining the class of 2021 in the fall!

@popper345 congrats i hope you made this decision on your own accord and not by anything from @Penn95 who is insufferable

@penn95 you have a lot to learn in life - what a waste of an m&t slot to have admitted you