<p>Just out of curiosity to a future applicant. Would you guy say that Penn and Columbia are equally prestigious and good schools? Its very hard for me, because I am going to see Columbia soon (already saw penn), and I am sure I will love it. I really like NYC and on my first visit my impression of Penn was fine, but nothing special. Yet, the kicker for me is that I am a legacy at Penn and thats sort of a big deal, so I am curious if you guys think I would be crazy to throw a very very good shot at Penn ED away for a chance at Columbia. If you guys can shed any light on the differences in these schools in academics, prestige and social life that would be great. Thanks</p>
<p>Oh God. Columbia. </p>
<p>And keep in mind that I actually visited Upenn whereas my application to Columbia was pamphlet-based. But then again I also rate Columbia above Princeton so I may not be the most neutral person here. I freaking love Columbia.</p>
<p>2nd lionheaded. consider the weaker student body at penn, which is a safety for top applicants. columbia is not.</p>
<p>this is not in reference to wharton, which is distinctly different from penn's other undergrad schools. but come on, why drop everything for money and attend a school of ******bags?</p>
<p>Hi Bescraze, </p>
<p>I have read a bunch of your posts, so I'm going to answer this with you in mind - and not as a generalist. Although they are both terrific schools, I get the feeling that you also want a feeling of community along with an incredible social life. </p>
<p>Penn and Columbia are about equal institutions... and they are both in similar types of neighborhoods in similar cities (Although I've lived in both Philly and NYC and I think that there is no better city than New York!) You cannot really go by the rankings, because there is so little difference at that level. </p>
<p>However, I would say that Columbia is comparable to Chicago socially. Most students take advantage of the city - bars, etc., - rather than looking for fun on campus. This judgement is just from speaking with students from the few times I was a guest lecturer there. Columbia is an exciting and vibrant academic campus, but I think the kids have to work harder to "connect" socially, if you know what I mean. </p>
<p>Penn has a large Greek life, and I think the social life tends to center around the campus (I only did my graduate work there, but that was my observation). </p>
<p>So... even though Columbia has a lower admit rate, I don't think it is worth giving up the legacy edge at Penn. As I said, even though I don't know you, I gather from your posts that you are looking for an active social life within the campus... my vote would be Penn for you!</p>
<p>legacy doesn't get you in that easily. If you have a "very very good shot at Penn ED" then you'd have a pretty good shot at columbia ED, and if you don't have a decent shot at columbia ED then you won't at penn. they're comparable schools. both penn college and columbia college are great schools (i'd give columbia the slight edge here), but really the difference is prestige or perception is marginal. They're different schools, columbia has its core curriculum.</p>
<p>I don't think columbia's social life lacks in anyway, the campus is vibrant, the city is a resource. I dislike posters who recognize that nyc is a titanic resource, and then need to find some way that the city adversely affects campus to compensate. This isn't the case, people go into city with their friends, and with different groups of columbia friends. Here's what you don't get at columbia:
-as much greek life
-regular large crazy parties
-as much rallying around sports teams (apart from fencing)
And that's it, it isn't a u-chicago where academics are fking intense and fun goes to die. </p>
<p>Penn is more pre-profesisonal, columbia is more balanced (not as theoretical as say princeton or chicago, or as artsy as brown). I think penn is a great school, no denying that. Begin to think more deeply after your visit to campus. Columbia is also definitely in the better neighborhood, one of the best in the country perhaps after NYU, it's safe, it's diverse, it has entertainment, shops, character and is constantly in flux to adapt to what students like. if anyone says anything about safety, a university of pennsylvania study in 2004 named it the safest urban campus (it's only gotten better since then), and morningside heights is considered one of the safest neighborhoods in the city, nyc is considered one of the safest cities in the coutry. Harlem too has been cleaned up of crime a huge amount.</p>
<p>to elaborate, and seem less biased, both are really comparable in academics and prestige (though people know "penn" to stand for penn state more than upenn). </p>
<p>i really just find the big distinction to be the student bodies - penn being preprofessional, while columbia attracts more who love learning. but there are always exceptions to stereotypes, especially in schools of thousands of people.</p>
<p>the core curriculum should be considered as well.</p>
<p>edit: beaten to it by confidentialcoll</p>
<p>confidentialcoll: You gave a terrific answer. I want to clarify that I wasn't putting Columbia down by any means. I was trying to individualize my answer to Bescraze, who has been candid on these boards about what he is looking for in his personal college experience. And the fun doesn't go to die at Columbia - it's just different than my perception of what he is looking for from his previous posts. My niece and nephew both went to Columbia and loved it... I am in awe every time I am there! Have you eaten at Sylvias?</p>
<p>Both schools are on the same level of prestige.
Both Philly and NYC are awesome cities.</p>
<p>It ultimately comes down to personal preference, or "fit."
You won't go wrong either way.
But, your legacy status will greatly help you, and you might not want to squander it.</p>
<p>Oh, in addendum, I'm sure you've seen that cross-admit ranking--the reliable one based on actual scholarly research, not the NYT one. Columbia ranks highest after only HYPSM and Caltech.</p>
<p>For Bescraze:
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/columbia-university/487338-columbia-upenn.html%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/columbia-university/487338-columbia-upenn.html</a></p>
<p>Rankings and academic quality isn't really a reason to choose between Columbia and Penn. You would be best served choosing between them on the basis of:</p>
<ul>
<li>Student body "personality", the types of people who go there and how well you fit with each group</li>
<li>The types of education emphasized - Columbia more traditional</li>
<li>The cities. Philly isn't exactly Moose Jaw, Alaska, but there's little comparison in the available resources, nightlife, points of interest, public transportation, etc.</li>
<li>Your personal priorities with what you want to get out of your education and what things you value about a campus.</li>
</ul>
<p>The social life is best answered in post #5 by confidentialcoll. Greek life exists but is much smaller, most people find social circles on campus and things to do - including alcohol/drugs - without needing the help or encouragement of frats. The social life does not revolve around frats (nor around any one thing, although the most common theme is meeting people in activities). And there's simply not enough space given to a student or group of students for there to be any huge parties. I saw two huge parties during 4 years on campus (one owning the whole 7th floor of Hogan and having maybe 200 people, and one, on Halloween '03, taking over the entire BUILDING of Ruggles and resulting in fire trucks and cops). Most other shindigs were smaller more intimate affairs.</p>
<p>And yeah, nobody cares about our glamour sports teams (football and basketball). You're more likely to find yourself rooting on an intramural team that your friends joined, or find yourself joining an intramural team yourself just for the fun of it. Columbians have school spirit but it isn't related at all to sports.</p>
<p>Thanks for all of the advice! The reason I was wondering about the social life so much is because Columbia seems to get a bad rap in that regard. So what I am hearing is that people mainly head off campus and just have fun in different ways, but does that result in some lack of campus unity, meaning you have your friends who go out and other people have theirs? Also wouldn't that make having a fake id very important, if you are all interested in drinking? The last question is that I have seen information that columbia takes roughly half of its class ED, so does anyone have a rough acceptance rate for those applying ED?</p>
<p>Bescraze, don't minimize the importance of fit and social life when choosing where you will spend the next four years of your life. It is a huge factor. I know you are concerned with prestige, but I am pleased to see that you are looking at other factors as well. You have to be happy at a college in order to succeed.</p>
<p>If you're after money, go to Penn cause Columbia students get paid less than all the other Ivies :p</p>
<p>ow yea, I can't wait to live on the street at 35 without a secondary degree.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you're after money, go to Penn cause Columbia students get paid less than all the other Ivies
[/quote]
I would assume that going to Columbia would in no way hurt someones chances for landing a job on wallstreet/ibanking. I mean it is an extremely prestigious university in new york city after all...If I am wrong, by all means let me know</p>
<p>You should probably post the same question in the Penn forum if you want to hear from the people who chose Penn over Columbia.</p>
<p>
[quote]
consider the weaker student body at penn, which is a safety for top applicants. columbia is not.
[/quote]
Though the cross-admit data between Columbia and Harvard Yale Princeton would beg to differ...</p>
<p>The bottom line is that Penn and Columbia are both neck-and-neck in the race for the mantle of "best ivy after The Big Three" and anyone who tells you otherwise is a moron, or a Cornell student (or both as the case may be ;)) </p>
<p>It really should come down to fit. The schools have very different vibes and educational focuses. Nobody is going to debate that NYC is a better city than Philadelphia in just about every way a city can be measured. Of course, as a result of this, nobody is going to debate that Penn has a stronger campus culture and scene.</p>
<p>Columbia has "The Core," which gives you tremendous academic depth, Penn has "One University," which gives you tremendous academic breadth.</p>
<p>I've found claims of Penn somehow being more "preprofessional" than other Ivies to be rubbish. Everyone I've run into at every Ivy has been every bit as anxious to get good jobs and internships as the Penn kids. Even the self-consciously "intellectual" kids are all scrambling to get their NGO internships...</p>
<p>Look up "Slipper1234," who transferred out of Columbia and into Dartmouth. He can give you an earful on the undergrad world of Columbia...</p>
<p>To reiterate, both schools are phenomenal, as are their students.</p>
<p>what cross-admit data? the only big study i'm aware of places columbia in better light than penn. sorry if i'm missing something - i don't quite understand your rebuttal.</p>
<p>in any case, the difference in selectivity is pretty well known - penn is in the same league as brown, not columbia. a subtle difference for sure, but one which comes into play when you're dealing with hundreds of top applicants.</p>
<p>my own experience has been that those desperate to get jobs and internships are not common at columbia. all my friends are doing the whole research/focus on learning route, but then again, they're all underclassmen as well. perhaps things pick up come junior year.</p>
<p>These are incredibly similar schools in terms of placement/ prestige/ etc. In my experience there is very little real world difference between these two (and Brown, Dartmouth, Duke, Amherst, Williams, etc). Pick the one you like more.</p>
<p>Well slipper just out of curiosity, what didn't you like about Columbia that caused you to transfer? Was it the social scene?</p>
<p>Can someone address the fake IDs question? How necessary are they?</p>