Columbia vs Northwestern vs SMU

College Search & Selection
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My daughter has been admitted to 8 schools, but is choosing between 3 in particular: Columbia University, Northwestern University, and Southern Methodist University.

The great thing about Northwestern is that it has undergraduate journalism and she could double major with English (Creative Writing Track). Last week we had the opportunity to visit the campus and it was beautiful with friendly people. We haven’t visited Columbia yet. She wants to visit before making her final decision. She is intrigued by the Core and of course the literary community of NYU is her dream for her future working in publishing. It will cost us more money and upfront to do Columbia, while NU is 3,500 less and offered her loans. We have visited SMU multiple times as it is only two hours from our home. She was offered the full ride presidential scholarship at SMU. She would be a part of a great honors community there. While it is considered prestigious where we come from, it pales in comparison with Columbia and Northwestern in the rankings. SMU is one of the only schools in the south to have a Human Rights major/minor (which is also one of her interests) and the study abroad opportunities with her scholarship program would be amazing. However, SMU isn’t nearly as diverse or progressive as Columbia or NU, which are both qualities she is looking for in a school. Plus, the entire student bodies at these schools are honors college material, and not just the top 10%. She also really wants to get out of Texas for college.

This is a very difficult decision and she has voiced her concern that she is scared of getting it wrong. I think she has pretty much ruled out SMU, but I wanted to get other people’s opinions on it since we have no idea how people outside of Texas view the school.

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What are the costs of NU and Columbia without loans?

That you’d have to take loans at one and it sounds like stretch for another likely tells me all I need to know.

SMU

Journalism and Creative Writing - I can’t think of many majors with worse well paying career opportunities and where pedigree does not matter - at least journalism.

SMU is prestigious in its own right and the presidential is an unreal achievement.

And will save you vs full pay upwards of close to 400k if were full pay.

As for loans - a student gets up to $27k and a parent can borrow more. That’s not them helping you. That’s them strangling you financially, with up front fees and interest, for many years in majors where again, the outcomes are unlikely to be strong and at least for journalism, where you go doesn’t really matter - regardless of what you hear about a Northwestern, Syracuse, Mizzou. ASU or others.

I’d be interested to hear your actual cost for both Columbia and Northwestern after grants (not loans) but I’m sure the answer will still be, to quote Steve Miller, ‘Take the Money and Run.’

And it’s SMU. Amazing on its own !!

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Are Columbia and Northwestern comfortably affordable (no loans, no hardship)?

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If you are able to take money out of the equation - then she truly has choices. Imagine things will become much clearer once she visits Columbia. Stunning campus, crappy dorms (nyc housing), interesting diverse students and all NYC has to offer - either she will fall in love or it will no longer be of interest.

What wonderful options for your daughter - congrats.

PS: I received my degree in journalism. I never worked in the field, but was in senior director position in 2 Fortune 500 companies. The degree never hurt my career prospects. :slight_smile:

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I love Columbia, but NYC is a very expensive city. I also love NU, but as the other posters asked, what loans, by you or the student, and how much? Parents often subsidize graduates in publishing after college due to low pay-would that be ok for you if you also took loans?

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We can afford Columbia and NU, but NU is better for us as she can take loans that we can be saving to help her pay later. The airfare is going to be another cost consideration, but we can do it. She also plans to work this summer to help pay. I am also concerned that financial aid is not guaranteed from year to year and the scholarship would be as long as she kept her grades up.

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We would definitely help her pay her loans.

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Columbia would cost $9,000 plus she would do work study.
Northwestern would cost $6,000 plus she would do work study.

I didn’t realize that publishing and journalism weren’t good paying fields. She just really loves literature and writing. I am an elementary school teacher and my husband nearly kills himself running a small welding business so I guess we aren’t good at going where the money is in our family. LOL

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I’ve got a degree from Syracuse and I’ve earned a fine living…but not in journalism.

People can pivot and I didn’t say that someone can’t be successful in life with a journalism degree.

But the outcomes in the career - are typically either low paying or most leave the profession. It’s just a reality. And there’s a reason top schools either require a double major or minor.

And I wouldn’t tell someone not to major in it - but I would caution about strapping oneself financially.

And the Presidential at SMU, already a fine school on its own, takes everything to another level. And allow flexibility on the back end to maybe take a position that another student with debt could not take. Or allows a person to keep their family on better footing financially overall.

PS - $9,000 and $6,000 - well that’s a heck of a lot better than $90,000!!

I would reverse my thought then - and say if you can afford any, then it’s ok.

But again, unless you have substantial ability to pay loans, etc. I would not take them. The up front fees are onerous - i.e. you think you borrow $10K but it’s only $9600 after they take their share. And there’s interest, etc. If you have the money, better to lend to your student and have her pay you back.

You will find kids working the summer at Dunkin likely making more than kids interning in journalism or publishing. There are exceptions though - my daughter is in a similarly low paying field but will land a summer job with the state at $20 an hour - so they told her. But the likelihood is less.

I’d end with -

I get, she’s from Texas and wants out - but I will tell you that SMU is a very fine name.

Northwestern and Columbia are - I know - the creme de la creme - and if you can afford it without strapping you or her, I get it.

But there’s also no shame in SMU - even though she doesn’t want to hear that.

Congrats to her and best of luck.

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At 90k, no.
At 9k, I think Columbia is a reasonable choice. Closer to the publishing industry in order to do internships etc.
And a much easier to justify choice eventually if your daughter steps away from journalism, but goes into adjacent areas that hire literature graduates like advertising etc.

Just came across this -
This person made an interesting career for herself being a youtube personality:

She is from Columbia journalism – I guess you can do this anywhere, including SMU.
https://■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■/in/cleocabram/

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Columbia and NU are better names but they do sound like they would be a stretch for you. You need to consider the additional costs incurred in college-the dorm supplies, the outings with friends-the additional expenses can add up quickly. It may be hard when she has to pass on events her friends suggest, like going out to eat. I assume there would be much less financial stress with a full ride at SMU, but only your family can assess that trade-off.
I do suggest you both investigate career outcomes and salary ranges for different fields to avoid unwanted surprises. For example, Human rights issues are usually pursued by lawyers ( law school is another expense).

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Go with Columbia or Northwestern. They are absolutely worth the extra 6-9k a year compared to SMU (a good school for sure).

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While $6-$9K are not a lot of money for a top level education (relative to other choices out there) and OP said they can afford it - I guess I get concerned when someone’s tuition is $6K or $9K at these schools.

That means, unless i’m missing something, there’s a huge amount of demonstrated need involved and I hate for a family to strain itself - and this is before travel and all the extras that come with being a college student.

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Exactly. The OP concern about the cost of travel to school indicates to me there isnt much of a safety net here

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You make a good point here.

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Given the state of journalism and how important connections are in that field - and that Columbia and Northwestern have top programs to assist in her getting her foot in the door - I would rule out SMU. My answer would be different if she weren’t set on journalism, as SMU is a very good school with great connections in other programs, and a full ride is very difficult to pass up. Northwestern’s journalism program is extremely well known everywhere - but Evanston is a very different feel from Morningside Heights (Columbia). $3300 isn’t much of a delta, so I would just ask her which, between Columbia and Northwestern, really feels like would be a home for her over the next four years.

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Correction. $3300 is not much of a delta to you; it may be to the OP. OP’s daughter also does not seems to know much about journalism and I do not think connections in that field matter at all-a body of published work does, and that can be accomplished anywhere, including high school. It is a brutally competitive field which the student may decide not to pursue in the end, as many kids change majors.

For perspective, there are high school students pursuing journalism who have been published repeatedly in this country’s largest newspapers.A college journalist won a Pulizer Prize. Not all journalism majors are this accomplished, obviously, but the talent level is high and it is a competitive field.

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Op-it would be worth a call to the student newspapers at both Columbia and NU to ask if their process for joining is selective, and if so, what percentage of applicants are admitted. It is a selective process at many schools, and pretty much essential to pursuing journalism.

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If you can possibly afford it, go to Northwestern or Columbia. I would vote Northwestern as a more fun less hard core/competitive place, close to, but not right the middle of, an amazing city, and of course one of best journalism programs in the world. Of course Columbia is also amazing and NYC can’t be matched, but she has to visit and see if she finds it overwhelming. For full disclosure I had a kid graduate from Columbia and one heading to Northwestern.

to me the cost difference is extremely worth it for schools with much more prestige and in much better locations.

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I would argue depending on the type of journalism desires, prestige is mainly worthless. I’m a Syracuse journalism grad. But these schools have heft/size. Hence the amount of successes they have are large but not necessarily when scaled to program size.

I don’t believe Columbia has an undergrad j school.

Op did mention creative writing and publishing. I might ask for career outcomes at each - does one have a better track record than others?

I don’t know where publishers are located but if they’re mainly in NYC, then I’d assume Columbia had an advantage. If in Dallas, SMU. In Chicago, Northwestern.

There are so many more fields in journalism today - but it’s often a contracted world vs employment world for many of these opportunities. A lot will depend on what journalistic expertise they want whether print, magazine, broadcast, etc and then the niches within.

I think OP really has three terrific options. But it’s never an option to strangle yourself financially.

Best of luck.

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