Columbia vs Penn vs Johns Hopkins vs UC Berekeley

Hi all, so I got accepted to 14 colleges out of 21 schools I applied to, and I have narrowed down my potential options to these four schools. I am out of state for all of them, Berkeley costs the same as the others (I mean the original, expected total).

I will pretty much major in CS for sure, and double major in either finance, math or psychology (yea, so flexibility with doubling major also matters to me). My career goal is to go into either quant or Software Development Engineer track for about 5-10 years and eventually make my own start-up. I will list the most apparent pros and cons of each of the four schools and please give me some suggestions:

Columbia:
Pros:

  1. Its career placement is great. All of my friends who graduated from Columbia and my high school all ended up getting paid around or more than $150k for the first year (before tax of course).
  2. New York City: I love art and going to musical performances. Being at Columbia is not only closer to these things but also cheaper (or free). (But honestly, if this is a significant reason, why don’t I go to NYU, cuz it’s even $5000 cheaper…and I got into Stern too…)
  3. The name of being an Ivy and generally not considered at the bottom of the league. Boom…
  4. Great networking. For me specifically, Columbia is good for this, because a higher percentage of its alumni/ae are doing what I wanna do. (Yea, I know its not the greatest place for CS, but CS does not count on networking to get an interview as much. But for quant and finance, come on, Columbia’s heaven)
  5. GREAT PEOPLE!!! I know so many great people there.
    Not pros yet not cons, just a matter of fact:
  6. Core. It takes up a huge amount of time, which makes it harder to double majors there (you can’t even double major if you are in SEAS).
  7. However, Core more or less serves as sports, if you know what I mean. When networking, Columbians usually use the core as a way to get common grounds and sympathy. I mean, I would rather waste time reading books that I don’t wanna read than waste time attending sports events that I don’t wanna attend.
    Cons:
  8. Expensive. Dah. And I got no aid or any “title” scholars
  9. No campus whatsoever. It’s mixed though – I am not a party/frat/sports person. I might be less disadvantaged if no one is invited anyways… But I do care about the feeling of being in a college – living in a 30-acre college and a 10-floor dorm does bother me a bit
  10. Because of the existence of some programs (not to name which ones) and heavy transferred population, Columbia’s undergraduate reputation does get distracted. I think people generally appreciate the 5% first-year acceptance rate less than it actually is.
  11. Less study space. Butler is often full of people. (Versus the excess of study spaces at Penn and the super quiet Brody center at JHU of course)

JHU:
Pros:

  1. Suuuper cheap because I got a $39000/a year merit-scholarship. This makes me going there for two majors and a master’s degree cheaper than going to any of the other three places for one year…
  2. Its engineering program’s reputation is good. Students there are more academics-oriented, and I think I am better able to focus.
    Cons:
  3. Pretty much everyone I know needs to go to a grad school because job placement right out of JHU…is…not great. There is a lack of on-campus recruitment.
  4. 50% of the people (as I see or hear) study something bio-related. Even if I am a CS student trying to do some CS or math research, it is somehow related to biology… With all honesty, bio is the last thing I wanna do. So I was in that group chat with new students, and I felt extremely lonely because many people are talking about BME stuff.

Penn:
Well, the cons and pros are similar to Columbia. In many ways, these two schools are hugely similar and on par with each other.

  1. A plus to Columbia:
    –The campus is much nicer indeed. The architectural styles are more well-thought-out. There are more study spaces, nicer interior environments…
    –I got this Ben Franklin Scholar thing. No money, but I do get to be placed in Hill with a priority (Hill house is more recently renovated, has very good dining and studying spaces)
  2. A minus to Columbia:
    –The vicious hierarchy. As I heard from many friends at Penn, being in the College, not Wharton, places me somewhere at the lower end of the chain. I personally also like what I can study at the college less, but transferring to Wharton under the new policy implemented since 2018 makes it nearly impossible.

Berkeley:
This is so different that should I choose this path, I wouldn’t even consider the other three schools:
Pros:

  1. I got into EECS and I am gonna study CS. Berkeley’s THE best place for this out of all four, hands down (well kind of)
    Cons:
  2. It’s a public school. This means: >2000-people intro classes; TAs are teaching many classes; small dorms. Basically, the per capita undergraduate research, faculty, etc resources are limited.
  3. In short, I am more than happy to go grad school there. I just don’t think its right to choose it for undergrad. It is lacking this experience. I speak Chinese well, so if what Berkeley offers is actually all that I care about I could pretty much just go to Tsinghua, where it is even much cheaper.

As you may find out now, my choice is between three camps: Columbia/Penn vs. JHU vs Berkeley. A.K.A: weigh into career vs low-cost education vs top engineering option.

A note about money: I am not going into debt whatsoever. I see from the many people I know who share similar backgrounds that JHU grads definitely make less money than Columbia/Penn’s right out of college. It’s just a matter of how much. Though JHU is much cheaper, I am positive that the money I would save maybe just a couple of years of salaries. The simple question is if it is worth the difference in cost. “Return per Investment.”

None of them is my top choice when I applied honestly. Two of my favorites are Princeton and Stanford. I was waitlisted by Princeton, so if admitted there would be no question or internal struggles. I just mention this to give you guys an idea of what I look for when in college.

Your opinions will be much appreciated. Thanks! Stay safe during the COVID-19 outbreak!

Reading through your post, I am hearing that Penn is best meeting your needs. . It sounds like Columbia is where you think you should go, but you do not feel at home on the campus. UPenn sounds like a campus you are excited about, but you care about your perceived status.

You also seem to think through decisions analytically I think that you are going to “earn” the respect of others as you enjoy the college life at a campus where you like the campus and the dorms. Good luck!

Can you investigate some more specific employment/salary data for JHU grads in engineering and CS? I suspect you may be comparing apples to oranges here, since as you say, so many JHU students pursue bio and health related careers that are not lucrative immediately after college. It may in fact be that CS and engineering grads at JHU do every bit as well as their counterparts at your other schools. (Or not - I really don’t know, but you definitely can’t tell from aggregate data.) The quality of the programs is not in question. This is by far the best financial deal on offer so you should at least evaluate it fairly. I’m sure it’s very possible that you’d grow a little weary of the ambient premed/bio dominance on campus (though perhaps no more so than you’d feel about the Wharton-dominance at Penn), but OTOH you’ll be in a different program, taking most of your classes with people who share your interests, so I’m sure you’d find your people. Look into the research opportunities within CS and see what non-bio topics might interest you. (I believe language processing is big there - have you considered linguistics as a math/psych-adjacent field to combine with CS? Big career opportunities there.) Also, you’d have no shortage of musical performances to attend, with Peabody there. And as you say, you’d have $$ left over.

No bad choices here! I just wouldn’t count JHU out too quickly - that’s a great opportunity with the scholarship, and in no way an inferior program to the others… and the studious atmosphere + the arts infusion of the conservatory doesn’t sound like a bad fit with the way you describe yourself.

Starting salaries are a false statistics, skewed toward east/west coast schools…with the highest cost of living. OF COURSE Columbia graduates are going to make THAT much! That doesn’t mean squat in NY, where you pay $10,000 a month for a broom closet. A $65,000 starting salary in Texas could buy you a 1500 sq ft house, because you have much more purchasing power.

I would say, if you have a good scholarship at JHU and your parents can make-up the difference so you can graduate debt free, TAKE IT! It’s ABET accredited, and that’s all that needed. If you do CS, it would make ZERO difference where you graduate at all.

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If by some miracle you’re still on here, could you tell me where you ended up and why? I’m in a very similar situation as you (CS deciding between Penn, jhu, berk, and uchicago) and I’m having a lot of trouble making up my mind.

The OP hadn’t been on CC in over a year. Closing.