Columbia vs Penn

<p>Hi all,</p>

<p>I've posted a similar thread in the Penn forum and got inundated by reasons to pick Penn over Columbia. I figure that in order to gain a balanced perspective, I have to listen to what Columbia has to say. So please convince me that Columbia is better than Penn. And please, don't dig too deep on Core or NYU-- everybody knows they are Columbia trademarks. Plus, I'm not particularly keen on the two. For one, you can study subjects in Core in every other top university as long as you've got the drive, and you come out as thoroughly 'enlightened' as any Columbia student. As for NYU, I've heard that it dilutes the atmosphere in the university. In other words, you literally spend your life in the city, and I'm not a fan of wandering along an overwhelmingly metropolitan and haphazard city...But correct me if I'm wrong. I'm totally wearing a Penn perspective now.</p>

<p>P.S. I'm interested in social sciences (e.g. gender studies, economics, politics etc) but I'd love to explore into other totally unrelated subjects, like physics and music. -if that helps in the comparison, and thanks in advance!</p>

<p>honestly if the core is a turn off then dont go to columbia. it will take up something like 1/3 of your classes and you will wind up hating your time here if you dont enjoy it.</p>

<p>Skraylors right. The Core will outright drown you away if you can't swim (according to what I heard).</p>

<p>Overall, I actually think you just summed up what Columbia is all about.
To be honest, I actually think Penn is an amazing school not because its an ivy but also because its a school that balances both the work hard and play hard ambience. what top student wouldn't thrive in that kind of atmosphere?</p>

<p>Columbia is amzaing in many ways but one because its in New York City. Most convenient place to be especially because of the subways. </p>

<p>Quotes taken from a Penn student from a book that I borrowed.</p>

<p>-"High-achieving, super-preprofessional, mind-expanding, coffee-infused, fun-as-hell (the five adjectives used to describe it)</p>

<p>-"I warned that Penn was big and that I'd have trouble finding a niche here"</p>

<p>-"the competition at Penn can be brutal"</p>

<p>-"Penn is a competitive college where students tend to pack their schedules with various resume-building activities-but they always make time to party.</p>

<p>-"Because of the size and diversity of the academic offerings, the amount of schoolwork per student really varies."</p>

<p>Now the quotes for Columbia</p>

<p>-"Urban, urbane, intellectual, NewYork Ivy (the 5 adjectives to describe it)</p>

<p>-"The engineering education at Columbia-I would be lying if I said you're not going to work your butte off"</p>

<p>-"Columbia is funny because I feel like a lot of people are really proud to be going here and proud to be a part of the community, but there is little school spirit."</p>

<p>-" You won't find an average student on this electrical campus, but students here are mostly from the Tristate area."</p>

<p>-"the biggest challenge of being a first year student"
a)learning the NY subway system
b)figuring out what classes to take
c)getting into neighborhood bars under-age</p>

<p>So, I hope I enlightened you enough and you can make your choice from there about where to apply.
*Good Luck</p>

<p>-P</p>

<p>
[quote]
As for NYU, I've heard that it dilutes the atmosphere in the university. In other words, you literally spend your life in the city, and I'm not a fan of wandering along an overwhelmingly metropolitan and haphazard city...But correct me if I'm wrong. I'm totally wearing a Penn perspective now.

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<p>I was worried about this at first as well. However, from the time I've spent here, I haven't felt that NY has affected the ambiance of the university at all. Some of my friends have even started to say "let's go to NY". It really feels that we are in Columbia, and NY is "out there".</p>

<p>
[quote]
-" You won't find an average student on this electrical campus, but students here are mostly from the Tristate area."

[/quote]

what's an electrical campus? One which is wired for electricity?</p>

<p>...and Onx's experience is typical, at least it was for me and my friends. What's great is that "NYC" is a 10-block walk or 10-min subway ride away, rather than (say) a 90-minute drive from new haven.</p>

<p>The first bar I got into underage was the unofficial Red Sox bar of manhattan, The Riviera Cafe down on w4th st. I'd take the #1 train down there all the time, takes 20 mins. can't beat that with a stick.</p>

<p>"what's an electrical campus? One which is wired for electricity?"</p>

<p>Denzera, "electrical" campus being an adjective similar to what they call an "Academic Powerhouse" or just basically a vibrant tough school. Doesn't really have anything to do with electricty. Sorry for the confusion.</p>

<p>
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what's an electrical campus? One which is wired for electricity?

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</p>

<p>LOL</p>

<p>
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Denzera, "electrical" campus being an adjective similar to what they call an "Academic Powerhouse" or just basically a vibrant tough school. Doesn't really have anything to do with electricty. Sorry for the confusion.

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<p>either you are doing a really good job of being condescending here or a really bad job at understanding sarcasm. </p>

<p>
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or one, you can study subjects in Core in every other top university as long as you've got the drive, and you come out as thoroughly 'enlightened' as any Columbia student.

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<p>
[quote]
P.S. I'm interested in social sciences (e.g. gender studies, economics, politics etc) but I'd love to explore into other totally unrelated subjects, like physics and music. -if that helps in the comparison, and thanks in advance!

[/quote]
</p>

<p>The thing about columbia though is since they force you to take these subjects they force you to delve into topics you might not have normally considered. Also by making them a requirement you are actually working toward your degree by taking these classes rather than having to take them in addition to other classes. Also, though overused, the term well-rounded comes into play here....by being practically forced to take a couple of science courses, music, art, civilizations, etc you become more well informed....at another school you might just tend toward the familiar - even unintentionally. </p>

<p>The big differences between NYU and columbia are the location and the setup....NYU is in a more vibrant part of the city so it is much easier to get sucked into it on a daily basis while columbia is not and as a result you have to make more of an effort to get to the trendier parts of town or to get lost in the crowd for instance. Also, the fact that columbia has a set off campus is very key while at NYU you are walking down the street from buliding to building....there aren't any outdoor venues to gather etc as there are at columbia and when walking down the street you can't really tell whether someone is an NYU student or a New School student etc.....everyone just gets mixed into the pedestrian crowd...this certainly doesn't happen at columbia.</p>

<p>don't you mean electric?.....</p>

<p>"Plus, I'm not particularly keen on the two. For one, you can study subjects in Core in every other top university as long as you've got the drive, and you come out as thoroughly 'enlightened' as any Columbia student. As for NYU, I've heard that it dilutes the atmosphere in the university"</p>

<p>ahh, but the core is not just to enlighten you, it does that primarily and better than any other place i might add because it's structured, lit hum flows into CC, and there is a proper order to the humanity classes that you take, structuring the order of classes and making them gel into one another is one key benefit of the core. Also everyone does it, this has three-four distinct advantages:
1) you always have something common to discuss.
2) if you hate the class, others are in the same boat, and it makes for better bonding
3) everyone is exposed to these ideas, and it makes your peers too 'enlightened', college is mostly about the peers
4) there is no competitive disadvantage to taking the class, at penn you'd take a lit class primarily with english majors, and doing well will be more difficult there than doing lit hum at columbia where there are all the sorts of majors.</p>

<p>as for being in NYC (not NYU as you mentioned), Columbia isn't engulfed by the city like nyu is, the city far more accentuates campus by offering opportunities than it detracts from campus life. it has a stand alone campus, in which 90% of the people walking around, laying on the lawns/playing frisbee etc are students - and so maintains the college atmosphere that you find at more remote schools. our athletics are not great, this is what dampens school spirit, not in the least bit the city. the city gives opportunities for you and a random group of friends to go off campus and do something cool.</p>

<p>new york is hardly the dreary metropolitan area that it was 10 years ago, it's bustling, much greener, more pedestrian, cyclist and tourist friendly with better public transportation much much safer, and more cultural, lots of languages, and community and public events like plays in central park, free dance lessons in the summer. to give you an idea, when crime in most other parts of the country is rising, and housing losing value, crime is consistently declining in new york and real estate booming in manhattan. there is a weirdness about nyc that welcomes anyone and makes anyone feel at home. Even if you aren't particularly weird, diversity is a good thing. i've been to many cities and none has forstered diversity as much.</p>

<p>nyc aside, one would want to go to columbia for columbia. so the poly sci and econ depts are very strong, subjectively speaking, students on campus are more internationally aware and politically opinionated than at other places. the college also gets some unbelievably high up world leaders (and slightly less important figures far more frequently) to speak on campus. all the econ profs that i've had, without exception have been stellar. The dept has nobel prize winners and recognized researchers for the name, research, recognition and funding, but they make sure undergrads get rivetting professors, and enthusiastic post-phd rising stars. </p>

<p>penn culture i feel is too skewed toward being pre-professional. regardless of whether that fits your bill, it is endearing and beneficial to be around a variety of different people. people, who want to direct a movie, wannabe musicians, philosophically inclined students, the pre- meds, the pre laws, pre-journalism, the ibanking/consulting wall street crowd, the students who want to go into science research, the book worms and classics majors, the hardcore engineers and computer scientists, economics freaks, and those with domestic and international political aspirations, (the rare wannabe athlete at times :p) - the list goes on. Now every college including penn would have such a student, but i mention these because i have met each of these types of people in abundance. and no group dominates opinion, each is present, contributes to campus diversity and is well represented. </p>

<p>columbia doesn't gather at large events and chant in tune, but ask people if they're happy/proud to be at columbia, they'll overwhelmingly say yes, and then ask if they'd rather be elsewhere.</p>

<p>My first class at Columbia this year is with this guy (Lithum- 17 ppl):</p>

<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lilla%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Lilla&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>My friends at Penn are getting taught by grad students who really don't care. Go compare. Columbia is more prestigious than Penn unless we're talking about Wharton, and that in itself is a separate niche.</p>

<p>My freshman great-books course, Lit Hum (21 people), was taught by philosophy professor Lydia Goehr:</p>

<p><a href="http://www.columbia.edu/cu/philosophy/fac-bios/goehr/faculty.html%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://www.columbia.edu/cu/philosophy/fac-bios/goehr/faculty.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Yeah, my lit hum guys is straight up legit. He doesn't play games.</p>

<p>As a person who grew up right next to NYC, I see it as a place that thrives off making a huge profit off of everyone. Clubs go for $20 minimum, drinks about $10 (including beer), and unless you buy fast food you'd better peel at least a 10 spot. I think Philly, in the Penn area is much more affordable and if you venture a "little" ways away from the Penn campus you can even find better deals on everything. The colleges themselves, well that's where the Penn students will defend their college and the Columbia students will defend theirs, but I strongly feel that one does not have to spend a lot of money to have a great time in Philly, which despite what some people will say on this website, is a great city and compares favorably to NYC (though not quite as great as NYC)</p>

<p>
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drinks about $10 (including beer)

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<p>in my experience i'd say beers/drinks are closer to 5$ than 10. at least around columbia and nyu i know that to be fairly true.</p>

<p>Well there are a ton of things you can do for free in NYC. Your columbia ID will get you into museums, you can spend tons of time just walking around the different neighborhoods. </p>

<p>I've yet to see any of the typical fastfood joints around here. There's pizza, delis, diners, BBQ and tons of places where you can eat for less than 10 dollars. I went to a chinese place a few nights ago and you can get a full meal for 6 bucks.</p>

<p>But since NYC has so many activities that don't cater to "just" the college crowd, they jack up the prices on most everything, including alcohol. If you go to school in the city I assume you are being truthful about your experience there Skraylor, but I am very familiar with NYC and I feel everything there is 2-3 dollars more expensive because it is NYC and so many people around the world worship the place.</p>

<p>I have yet to see a $10 beer; it's usually $5 or $6.</p>

<p>And tip? I was only rounding off in the first place, not speaking about exactness because that varies. The point is, for those who may wanna have more mature fun than just a college party, which is something many Columbia students do on weekends, it can get very expensive. That could be a slight deterrent to students who cannot afford to swing hard on weekends. Take it from me, it sucks being in the City and not be able to take part in what goes on there.</p>

<p>ok, new york jacking up prices defies both common experience and economic sense. it's rich, with many tourists, but there are enough and more people here for all segments of any market. So datdude is probably going to the wrong / a narrow set of places. companies will price products to maximise market share/profit, and in less affluent areas, cheap stores/drinks/hang out places/bars/night clubs are both in abundance and make sense. the only possibly significant factor that raises prices in nyc is rent, and for a joint that gets a reasonable amount of business, the overhead is not significantly felt in the prices. On the other hand the higher level of competition between stores and bars, reduces prices. and rounding the price of drinks up from 5 or 6 +tip to 10 is far from a minor lack of precision.</p>

<p>My lack of precision is unacceptable and my knowledge of NYC, it's nightlife and party scene is outdated. My inaccuracy is obvious. Let's argue over the price of tea in china. If you've never been to a club in the city and not paid "at least" $6 for a beer and not left "at least" $1 tip, maybe you are the one who goes to a narrow set of places (or are very cheap). The point is that the city is big enough so that anybody who party's there and doesn't confine themselves to the "less affluent" areas is going to experience spending a lot to have fun, depending on how much they go out. Simple as that. I don't have to spend $20 to thoroughly enjoy myself in Philly because for college students the city just doesn't call for spending that much to drink and socialize, but how far can $20 take u in NYC?</p>