<p>I don’t think Columbia has a sense of community. It comes down to a lack of space. Students can’t book Lerner for fun events, the fraternities are closed off to non-members or other frats, and suites are only available to upperclassman. There are no sports teams to really rally behind.</p>
<p>My experience is a possible outcome but the faults that many of us have pointed out are incredibly common within the university. </p>
<p>admissionsgeek - I don’t understand how you know that Columbia is changing. I’ve been here for 2 and a half years and have barely seen any changes. I’m also involved in student council and other clubs so I work with the administration and the ABC. I can’t point to a single meaningful thing that Columbia has changed in the last several years to make the undergraduate experience better. Sure, they’ve added wireless to dorms and reworked the meal plan, but the fundamental need for advising and more space haven’t been addressed.</p>
<p>well, the manhattanville project appears to solve the space problem you addressed. by moving several graduate programs to the new campus, they’ll have more undergrad space. now, that won’t be up and running for quite some time, but eventually the problem may be solved.</p>
<p>dude…im a freshman at columbia right now and I dont know where your from/went to school but your most definitely trollin/need to get out of your dorm and look around.</p>
<p>1) students do book lerner for ‘fun events’. The freshman class council has already booked the lerner party space thrice for freshman class parties. Ive also been to Lerner for Diwali celebrations (indian festival of lights) and several dance performances (im in a dance team). In fact, we had Glasshouse Rocks last Thursday which had the whole of Lerner Hall packed with people, activities, live bands, free beer, dance performances and a party in the party space. So i really dont know what the f your on about!</p>
<p>2) No suites until your an upperclassman? are you serious? Carman? Hartley? Wallach? (thats 3 out of the 5 dorms open to freshman for housing) and i dont know about furnald but in all likelihood thats got suite style living too.</p>
<p>3) About advising: they recently opened a brand new office for the advising dept on lerner 4th floor. Sure, its still not the best advising dept in the world…but its a hella lot better than before.</p>
<p>4) Sports teams: the basketball and football games (last semester) have all had record turnouts at the home games. The football team did okay but beat Cornell for the Empire State bowl and hammered Princeton (the school most Columbia like to hate on). so yeah! We may not be the best…but were certainly not terrible enough not to cheer on. You were also obviously not one of the roughly 3000 people who packed Levien this weeknd for the basketball games against Princeton and Penn (lost to Princeton but beat Penn). Oh yeah…weve also beaten cornell and dartmouth.</p>
<p>most of your criticisms are redundant and false so i would suggest you quit the pretenses of being a columbia student/alum. the stereotypical criticisms of columbia about athletics/advising/community etc etc only make you sound terribly ignorant</p>
<p>1) True, when I meant fun events, I thought about events with alcohol. There are several cultural events and dances for the classes, but the dances are held 1-2 times a year per class. In the grand scheme of things, I don’t know if cultural and dance events are held that often compared to how much of Lerner is used for outside companies and student group meetings. I wish I could show the board what the Lerner space reservation system looks like and you could see how little of Lerner is used for entertainment. Hartley lounge is a poor substitute for a real student center.</p>
<p>2) Carman isn’t suite style living. Hartley and Wallach are suites but barely have any privacy. Also, they happen to be dry dorms with extremely stringent noise policies. Try hosting more than 10 people there without an RA complaining.</p>
<p>3) A new office doesn’t mean better advising. I think advising is the same as before, just more convenient to get to.</p>
<p>4) Nope. I didn’t attend the games and didn’t know many people who did. Maybe people are just closeted fans but students don’t talk about the sports teams or really cheer them on. </p>
<p>I think most of your views come from being a freshman. This may be a high school forum, but 1 semester (let alone first semester) is not representative of an experience.</p>
<p>Ha yeah Carman “suites.” I don’t think 2person doubles with cinder block walls from a temporary project from the 60’s make the cut. And while I’ll concede some of the cultural events at Columbia are super fun, I totally agree with beardtax that the fun happens a lot less than at peer institutions.</p>
<p>well yeah…maybe carman suites dont really match up to your expectations of a ‘good suite’ but they are still suites.! 2 spacious doubles with a shared bathroom is really not so bad for freshman housing.</p>
<p>as for ‘fun events’: glasshouse rocks did have free beer (alcohol) but for most people its not an issue to pregame in a friend’s dorm before heading out for a party. having alcohol available in columbia buildings simply does not make sense with a thousand students under-21 around. im sure harvard, princeton and yale dont have university sponsored on campus bars for all students or free wine at all cultural events held on campus. </p>
<p>once again, you really have to make the most of your experience here. but everything is offered to you to the same degree at any other peer college.</p>
<p>and beardtax, im sure people get busy going forth from freshman year but most of these events that ive attended were not restricted to freshman. the activities that ive been doing are definitely things i will be pursuing throughout college. The only difference maybe that Ill be staying a couple of blocks away from campus as opposed to staying on campus but im pretty sure that my experience at columbia (which has been phenomenal so far) will not see any drastic changes over the next few years.</p>
<p>I would argue rather that a “suite” denotes a common shared living space, with a sofa and coffee table. From wikipedia: “In addition to one or more beds and bedroom fixtures, a suite will include a living or sitting room” Carman FAIL. </p>
<p>As for fun, the problem is that its incredibly fragmented as others have said. A few people at Havana, some at 1020, a few at EC parties, and frat brothers that stick to themselves. Not a huge social scene at all. So yes, you can drink. But not in a community environment like you can at pretty much every other top 10 school. </p>
<p>Maybe Columbia is a good fit for you and you don’t need that level of community. But the first time I visited Princeton I was like “wow I can’t believe the whole campus actually hangs out together.” Then I saw the same visiting Dartmouth, then at Brown, then at Harvard, then at Yale, then at Duke, and now at my law school’s undergrad. There’s something awesome about having a huge space, that students run, to hang out with other students in on a regular basis. </p>
<p>We have no off-campus house scene, no real dorm party scene due to crackdowns, no real frat scene (not like a real one), a pretty weak bar scene, oh and a nice community center where you can go to a cultural event once a month. “Great.”</p>
<p>Columbia is different, it might not bother you that much, but its different.</p>
<p>The recent posts are debates about Columbia between Columbia students. Perhaps the thread should be placed under Columbia, opinions from students and alumni on University. The whole thread bashing Princeton, even if in the satire news paper seems to me to be totally unnecessary and really serves not purpose but to demean all those involved in comparing two great colleges that are different in many ways but certainly not worthy of the type of bashing. And the Cornell West picture in the Columbia paper is surprising. He is one of the finest speakers I know of and is an asset every time he appears on Bill Maher, why Columbia new paper would choose to lampoon Cornell in a cartoon without stating the reason appears at the minimum to appear to be mean spirited. But hey, good luck if you guys think this is a productive thread…later…
I have to say, this does nothing to enhance the appearance of Columbia alumni or students to anyone on CC, excluding the more mature recent posters. No offense intended but it just seems like one of the more absurd threads I have come across…</p>
<p>so long, alma, as stating columbia is ‘different’ does not mean columbia is worse, then i am okay with your assesment.</p>
<p>i think it is a ‘to each his/her own’ kind of situation. and columbia offers a markedly different experience than its peer schools, such that when you note how you can have the same experience at yale, harvard, princeton, duke, dartmouth – my mind begins to ask? so why would you choose any of those schools? but that is just how i think.</p>
<p>i agree that we have no off-campus house scene (if even some of my friends used to live on the other side of morningside park and that always was a hell of a party), but i don’t know if that is bad. it means more people are in proximity. i don’t agree that the bar scene is weak, only because my experience was that it was pretty great and easy to get into places and find your own spot. and then you had nyc if you really wanted a good time. i think the problem remains that you wish to compare columbia to other places - instead of concentrating on the things you can’t do elsewhere that you can only do at columbia. i think when you reframe the focus of analysis, you come out with a ‘different’ answer.</p>
<p>not a better or worse one. in the end your education and experience at any top 10 school can be great, there is an incredible amount of agency we all have to make the most of what is given to us. and why i care a lot about columbia and columbia people is precisely because we have a shared experience, one that i view is a lot more ‘real’ in the sense that you battle obstacles and are forced to negotiate hazards. you become better for it, and you get to know your fellow students better as a result. and most of the hazards i don’t blame the university for - because having lived in NYC afterward and with good knowledge of other universities they are common problems that most universities face. plus there is the extra cultural problem columbia butts up against because no matter how badly the university wants to give an entire building just for students to play in a) it is not cost-effective, b) there is not enough space. but maybe i am too sympathetic.</p>
<p>and beard: i can tell you small changes that have occurred over the past 10 years that show an incredible amount of changes by the university, perhaps insufficient, but the right direction. abc went from a bumbling behemoth to now a slimmer behemoth, the advisor:student ratio is way down, the central location of advising is great, the purchasing and distribution of spacing will only increase with mville.</p>
<p>and if you want to live in a suite, live in the LLC. common shared living. perhaps that is why i am so much more at peace with my columbia experience :)</p>
<p>I have tremendous respect for others’ points of view. I’m sincerely confused, however, by the vehement criticism of Columbia and its community. With a community of several thousand undergraduates, I don’t understand how Columbia is unable to provide the “community” or any other positive attribute that one might seek. (Ditto for any other similarly sized and endowed university.) If this were a small LAC, I could perhaps understand, although my older son has found his “crowd” and filled his interests at an elite midwestern LAC simply by looking.</p>
<p>These stereotypes are simply that: extrapolation of one’s personal experience to all similarly situated (i.e., attending the same university). Columbia provides a myriad of lifestyles and opportunities to its students. My younger son, a Columbia frat boy and rugby player, has countless friends and “party” opportunities through his primary activities. He also has countless friends and opportunities that have no relationship to either frats or rugby. Why? Because he seeks them out, even though he doesn’t have enough time to do so.</p>
<p>I sense a bit of laziness or thin skin among those who complain about Columbia (or any other similarly situated university). Advising may need improvement, student public space might be limited, huge parties may be lacking, Carman suites may lack a seating area, etc. So what? No place is perfect.</p>
<p>Since this is a thread dedicated (ostensibly) to differences between Columbia and Princeton, what about Princeton’s grade deflation, eating club culture, New Jersey suburban location, etc.? Those may be faults, but who cares? Princeton is still a great school.</p>
<p>I know it’s sappy, but also true, that happiness and contentment are states that are attained only if one decides to attain them. I hope my Columbia son never develops “grass is greener” syndrome with respect to his college experience. He’s attending his first choice university, and I believe he will always think of it that way if he continues to surround himself with folks who are similarly happy to be there.</p>
<p>PBR, I think I know your son’s type pretty well. He has a great group of friends through a sport, hangs out at his frat, and probably knows a fair amount of people that hang out at the Heights (the “nice” bar). A nice social scene, and in many cases he would probably have created a similar niche at other schools so his life may not have been that different at Princeton or Columbia. </p>
<p>My issue is that you have to basically the campus as a whole does not hang out together in the way that you can at other places, with parties that are open to the whole campus. Those of us looking for a broader college experience found it a little lacking in this dept. For those who are more comfortable in smaller groups, Columbia fits the bill because those students are going to hang out no matter where they are. </p>
<p>But if you are looking for a larger sense of community where you have deep connections to lots of people and places, the Columbia environment isn’t built for that. We don’t know each other broadly as classmates, but rather niche’s within the University. This is different than other schools where there are locations where the entire school congregates, therefore forcing different people to interact.</p>
<p>@light airen
carman was my first choice housing option but i dint get it. if your looking for a very social experience freshman year then I would definitely say Carman fits the bill. However, I will warn you that some of my Carman friends do complain that sometimes the social aspect can get a bit much and a lot of my Carman friends have gotten written up! (take that as you will)</p>
<p>I got a walkthrough double at John Jay which ive really come to love. You can get really tight with your floor and sometimes singles really really help when you want some privacy/need to get studying done etc. I certainly feel that John Jay is social to the perfect extent. </p>
<p>I honestly dont know much a bout furnald but it seems similar to Hartley and Wallach which seem like entirely different experiences due to the floor layouts.</p>
<p>@pbr
im actually on the rugby team too! private message me your son’s name cuz im pretty sure i know him.</p>
<p>@alma mater
Events which bring the entire freshman class together maybe fewer but not out of the question at Columbia. The Tree-Lighting ceremony definitely had a great turnout as did Orgo-Night in Butler. Also, all the freshman class parties that have been organized by the class-council had tremendous turnouts. (Nearly 600 people showed up for one).
There will always be social segments of a class and those who are more inclined to stay in and enjoy their tight-knit and smaller group of friends. Columbia has both (like most other places). Perhaps the administration doesnt ‘force’ all students to interact by holding massive concerts on South Lawns and Low Plaza but we have our fair share of community bonding events too!</p>
<p>The World Leaders Forum! no other peer college has anything like that…and tickets for these forums are booked out in minutes! Hundreds (maybe thousands) of students gather to hear these people speak and definitely interact!
Even more importantly: The Core Curriculum!! How many other colleges have an academic system where you can literally strike a conversation with someone you meet in the elevator about how depressing Augustine’s confessions is or perhaps how much of a pain in the ass UWriting is. (Both of these are negative examples ofcourse and the Core has many admirers me being one of them) but the point is…its one of the most binding and unique hallmarks of the Columbia Undergraduate experience which no other school can boast off.</p>
<p>Maybe the Yale Green has bands and artists come and perform there which brings all the college kids together. But we have New York city and we could probably go downtown with a group of friends and watch a better band perform for a much better audience.
Princeton has most of its student body split up into elitist eating clubs? (really dont know how that fosters a sense of collective community)<br>
Id prefer a group of friends with whom I head into the city and chill with at the bars around campus (Mel’s, Campo, Abbee, The Heights etc) to that form of social restriction any day. And If I REALLY wanted to limit myself to a certain group of friends id go Greek. (Yes, Columbia has quite a few frats and even 4 sororities). </p>
<p>My point is, Columbia has everything any other place could offer and more. That doesnt necessarily make it better. But it most definitely doesnt make it worse.
Columbia is the one place where you can feel a part of a vibrant and inspiring academic community in Morningside Heights (soon to expand to include Manhattanville as well) as well as enjoy what is unarguably the greatest city in the world.</p>
<p>If you digup some of my old posts on collegeconfidential youll know that Yale was my top choice. I was a big fan of the school pride and community there and absolutely loved the place. (Visited frequently since my sister went there).
I spent a lot of time on cc trying to learn more about Columbia before I came in as a freshman and became highly skeptical about the ‘lack of community’ before i even set foot here.
Sure, ive been here only 1 and half semesters but theres been absolutely nothing that I can get myself to feel unhappy about.
Youve got a reach out just a little (and sometimes even thats not necessary) and the Columbia community will most definitely reach out to you. </p>
<p>I love Columbia and I love New York! </p>
<p>(now im going to bed cuz I have an 8:45 am class where Jeffrey Sachs is gonna speak on the impact of the revolution in Egypt on the economy of Sub-Saharan Africa. =) =) :)</p>
<p>Slicedbread - I think you miss the point. This is an every night weekend thing, not a dance in Alumni Hall. Go to Harvard or Dartmouth on a given weekend, people are out and everyone knows there “the party is.” Columbia just doesn’t have that, as you stated people will often go with a few friends downtown. </p>
<p>Not everyone wants this larger sense of community. I don’t think it would probably matter to you as much, for example. But you can’t deny its missing. I just don’t think Bacchanal, the one day the whole year Columbia is out together, or orgo night counts to provide for a regular social life.</p>
<p>…a regular social life that lives up to the standards that i [almamater] have created.</p>
<p>‘social life’ is such a fluid idea, so is ‘college life,’ and ‘normal college activities.’ that when you use them as if they mean something it just shows a lack of rigor.</p>
<p>if you want to somehow tell me there is a standard and thereby ‘good’ social life, prove it. stop conflating your expectations with what exists at columbia.</p>
<p>i will take issue with this statement “This is different than other schools where there are locations where the entire school congregates, therefore forcing different people to interact.”</p>
<p>a) i have attended ‘other schools’ for graduate study
b) i have as you have visited ‘other schools’ to see my friends</p>
<p>so i will say
it is pretty much an impossibility to get to know everyone in your class if it is 1400 students large, it is an impossibility to formulate good relationships with a broad swath of people when the school is that large. and my friends who attended peer schools have no more or no stronger friendships with people from ‘diverse’ backgrounds as i do.
there are no physical spaces that i found other schools to have that were significantly better at creating a sense of community, though they did i feel have some signature events that i wish columbia could have. spring fling at penn is still a memorable moment. but i found yale to be too spread out to really have ‘broad community building’ as you state, and my friends at various colleges mostly kept to themselves and folks they knew in their own college. certainly not the standard you raise here. and friends from princeton that were in eating clubs stuck there, and those outside of eating clubs pretty much stood outside of that scene.
scenes and cliques and the like develop everywhere, it is how things operate, just ask aristotle. we formulate close circles of people, and our interpenetration is only as much as we are able to do. there are certainly some abstract notions of ‘pride’ that you might be referring to, but on a daily basis at whatever university you will as you have stated form a group of friends and that will often make or break how much ‘fun’ you have.</p>
<hr>
<p>to your columbia does not allow for community. i guess my response is not a party or alcohol in nature, so i am sorry if it disappoints you. but i am continuously impressed by the way campus lights up in the spring time and the number of people that congregate on the steps. there are some criticisms (the whole step thing is maybe 4-5 mths out of the long school year), but it is continuously one of the more swelling feelings i get and the rush when you walk onto campus. you go see your friends, your friends friends, people playing frisbee, folks playing soccer, others playing music. in a sense it is exactly as you put it - everyone doing their own thing. but everyone doing their own thing together.</p>
<p>and that is kind of an interesting take on community that i think defies the drone standard of a headless horde doing something at once, but not being themselves at the same time. and it does epitomize what is special about columbia and its ‘community.’</p>
<p>My perspective: I transferred from Columbia to Dartmouth partly because of the social scene. While I felt Columbia had some community elements (much more so than NYU or BU), it wasn’t enough on a regular basis for me. For example, I feel as if at Dartmouth it was the culture to know many people and I echo the points that Columbia can be more cliquey (note: some people don’t mind this!). Also at Dartmouth there was just so much more sensory energy on a given night, this probably having to do with the campus-oriented vs. urban school environment. I actually attended the 5 year reunion at both schools, you just couldn’t compare them. Dartmouth was an entire weekend with about 75% of the class attending and felt like a large wedding, where many many people knew everyone. Columbia’s was a night in a tent, and had to be folded into other classes because only 150 or so showed up - then it filtered into a local bar. Just epically different. </p>
<p>That said community isn’t a priority for everyone and for many Columbia offers enough. I do think, however, that its unfair to disparage those who have written that they wish there was more. There wasn’t enough for me.</p>
<p>i agree with a lot of your assessment, and i would love to see reunions become bigger deals, and so that is something i’m working for on my own reunion. though in the end i’d rather folks that want to be there be there so if it means my class isn’t huge that’s fine with me, so long as future classes are better. </p>
<p>and i think you went about everything well in your college choice and often reference you for students who are unsure or think about transferring to a different experience. but there is a difference between saying - ‘hey this wasn’t for me’ and saying ‘this is lacking.’ because the latter is very presumptive. further i think people see community differently so when someone says ‘oh if you don’t want community, columbia is for you,’ is dangerous. i think we should just clarify things better.</p>
<p>ultimately the student who chooses columbia will have a markedly different college experience than those who go to more LAC type schools, and there are advantages to both and disadvantages too. so i think once we start getting prospective columbia students in the right frame of mind to begin to ask appropriate questions - and not begin to create rather hazardous comparisons that will (as i was treated in high school) lead them to a) not seriously consider columbia, b) not make the most of it when they arrive. ultimately prospective students should treat columbia for what it is, and us alums and current students should use our efforts to make columbia what we want it to be. there is always room for improvement.</p>
:)</p>