<p>Which one? And if Columbia, how good is their pre-med program, so to speak?</p>
<p>Yes, this has been posted in other places, but not everyone visits everywhere--I'm trying to get a lot of opinions. :)</p>
<p>if u know u want to be a doctor go the md program it shouldnt even be a question</p>
<p>wow that is really tough, but if you feel like you want to get a truly awesome undergraduate education go to columbia, but if you defnitely want to be a doctor stony brook is cheap and has a top 50 medical school which is pretty great. Either one is great you can't go wrong.</p>
<p>I think if you're smart enough to get into a medical program now, you'll probably get into medical school if you go to Columbia. So go to Columbia!</p>
<p>Read msdoc's post, found on the Multiple Degree Program section of CC, under the question- "Another BA/MD vs Ivy League Question."
It might help you in making a decision!</p>
<p>If you definitely want to be a doctor and have gained current status through your hard working and smartness (but not naturally gifted), I would suggest you go for Stony Brook BA/MD. </p>
<p>Only around 20% of all applicants from Columbia each year could get into top 20 medical schools in the nation, the Majority would get into the second tier or even lower tier medical schools, and 15-20% even go no where and no a single medical school will accept them each year.</p>
<p>Stony Brook Medical School is on the top of second tier medical schools in the nation and considered a research institute. For an average Columbia applicant, it is not easy to get in. You must stand out from your peer Columbia applicants. If you are Asian, you probably need to work extra hard. In 2005, the average MCAT score for entering class in Stony is 32.1 (10.7). However, each year they (many other schools do the same) accept 20% or more from underrepresented students, rural area students and some special programs associated with City Colleges, thus for an average applicant, a MCAT 35 will be not a sure thing for your to get in, especially for Asians.</p>
<p>Today's medical school admission game is unpredicable and you will start ball again same as getting into Ivys from your high school. I saw too many Asians with high GPA and MCAT 38+ rejected by first tier medical schools each year.</p>
<p>People go to Ivys to seek a better education, know good people and have a better social connection so that after graduation they can find a good job, seek a high position in the career, or get some connection in future business. This is true for student in business, management, law, politics, internationa relation or social science etc. But I don't see it much benefit for studnets to be doctors. </p>
<p>A $200,000 to buy a education which might land to not give you improved chance to get a better medical school than Stony Brook. I would go Stony Brook.</p>
<p>dont listen to people like seabird2006 who can only dream of getting accepted to columbia. There really is no substitute for a good, diverse undergrad education at the #9 university in the nation in the best city in the world. </p>
<p>yes, stony brook is a good med school but getting a real undergrad education and life experience as a true college student is irreplaceable...especially if it is at such a great institution as columbia. </p>
<p>Also seabird2006's "statistics" are COMPLETE GARBAGE.....you need to back those up immediately because they sound absolutely ridiculous.</p>
<p>If you haven't realized yet, i suggest you go to columbia without giving it a second thought and let things work out how they will when it comes the time to apply to med school....dont buy into the pesimistic BS that is being vomitted in these threads.</p>
<p>Actually, Shraf, there is a lot of truth to what seabird2006 says. Just read the post I included in my post above for some insights from a physician.</p>
<p>The important question is how certain small town girl wants to pursue a career in medicine. I read in the UC Berkeley site that one student gave up the Brown PLME combined program for UC Berkeley. Now, she has given up the prospect of becoming a doctor, due to the competition. She regrets her decision of giving up the BA/MD program.</p>
<p>yes, it happens, i'm not saying it doesnt, but if you cant keep up with the competition in college then you should be thankful u DIDNT go into the BA/MD program cause you certainly wouldnt be able to handle becoming a doctor.</p>
<p>Furthermore, Columbia's premedical track is nowhere near the same thing as Berkeley's premedical track. Not the same decision at all.</p>
<p>It is not possible for every student who applies to medical school, regardless of the caliber of the student's academic record and undergraduate premed preparation to get admission. Just last week I learned that a honors student from Yale and another from MIT could not get into medical schools in the US. One is in Grenada and another is at McGill in Canada. What good was an education from two top ten colleges, when they had to realize their dreams outside of the US? A family friend's son who graduated from Harvard told me that he knows of students who could not get into top tier medical schools, in spite of having a degree from what is considered by many as the best ivy league school.
What ever small town girl decides, she should not have any regrets. I think that an opportunity to have a secure future is worth seriously reflecting upon, especially since graduating from Columbia is NO guarantee for a seat in medical school, no matter how good that student is.
And yes, Berkeley's premed track is different; it is more difficult and more cut throat than Columbia's.</p>
<p>why is it that "a secure future" is only attained through going to med school??</p>
<p>Also, having an ivy league degree is in no way a free pass to med school, nor am i arguing that it gives anyone a better chance at going to med school later on. I am saying that a true undergrad education at a great university makes you a better person and will make u a better, more well educated and understanding doctor in the future.</p>
<p>Because, if a person wants to go to medical school...I mean is passionate about a career in medicine...then yes, a secure future is obtained by admission into a combined medical program.</p>
<p>I admire your devotion and loyalty to Columbia, and would hazard a guess that you are a student there. I am an outsider, and therefore more objective as I am not blinded by a bias to a certain university. Given the comments by seabird2006 and msdoc (see link in my first post on this page), I see the value of going to a BA/MD program...no matter the merits of what you claim is a "true" undergrad education at a "great" university.</p>
<p>Life as a premed student is not easy, nor is the anxiety over the application process, nor the stress surrounding the uncertainty of gaining medical school admission, nor the ordeal of studying for and taking the MCAT, nor the hassles of going for interviews. Getting admission into a combined degree program is much harder than gaining admission into an ivy league school: there are so few spots available.</p>
<p>BTW: Your belief that an ivy league education makes one a better, well-educated, more understanding doctor is not true.</p>
<p>oh no, what gave me away.....haha</p>
<p>i would be saying the same thing if we were talking about any other great university like harvard, yale, princeton etc etc....</p>
<p>also being passionate about a career when you are 17 means nothing and there are many many people who do well in HS and end up doing terribly in college so its better for something like that to happen when your a premed and when you are free to explore other things rather than have it happen when you are already committed and cant get out of it.</p>
<p>And of course an ivy league education makes u a better, more educated and more understanding person and as a result a better, more educated and more understanding doctor....its a more diverse and full education rather than the combined program which pretty much glazes over the first part.</p>
<p>Edit: also, i'm so glad i didnt read this board before applying to college because some of the advice on here is very appocalyptic and is very narrow minded and short sighted.</p>
<p>Shraf, programs like the PLME at Brown are combined but let you major in topics other then medicine while your in the program, in fact you probably get a more diverse and full education, just becasue you can spend more time studying what you like, having fun, doing ECs, instead of having all the stress of applying to medical school, and not to mention all the extra pressure to do even better on the MCAT.</p>
<p>we'r not talking about the PLME at Brown.....</p>
<p>at most other combined programs most people "major" in Bio or something of the sort and exculusively take tons of science classes and usually dont bother doing any ECs since they are already guaranteed a spot in med school and thus end up with less real experience when they enter the field and are committed to medicine without knowing very much about it.</p>
<p>Right - but Shraf isn't comparing Brown to Columbia, he's comparing Stony Brook to Columbia. I think it's a fair judgment to suggest that the undergraduate education offered by Columbia is stronger.</p>
<hr>
<p>Finally, the BS/MD program - that in and of itself I have no problem with.</p>
<p>I just want to make sure you're not robbing yourself of a good, well-balanced undergraduate education along the way. Choosing a guarantee is, of course, a luxury - I'd be the last person to deny that.</p>
<p>I just mean that I hope you're not intentionally choosing an inferior school for that - becuase your education is something that genuinely matters. It's not just a credential.</p>
<p>Doc2be is right - you have a guarantee at Stony Brook, and going to Columbia means there's a risk involved. He's probably wrong about the degree of risk - I doubt very many Columbia students can't get into Stony Brook, and those that can't probably shouldn't go - but what I'm arguing (and what I believe Shraf is also arguing) is that going to a strong university for undergrad is worth it - not necessarily to your career, but to who you are as a person and student.</p>
<hr>
<p>There is something that every single premed on this board seems to be forgetting: it's not enough to get into medical school. You have to do well, there, too.</p>
<p>So if you work less hard as an undergraduate at an inferior institution, you'll be in trouble when Match Day comes around.</p>
<p>Pursue a good education. No matter what happens, no matter how your mind changes, no matter whether you make it into medical school or not - and going to an Ivy pretty much means that you will - your education is the one intangible that will always carry over, no matter what.</p>
<p>That's worth more than you could possibly know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
And of course an ivy league education makes u a better, more educated and more understanding person and as a result a better, more educated and more understanding doctor....its a more diverse and full education rather than the combined program which pretty much glazes over the first part.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>How is the education at Columbia different from that at U-M Ann Arbor or UNC- Chapel Hill or any other fine public schools that are not Ivies? Is it just because it has the name "Ivy League" that it somehow magically gains a quality that makes it amazing educationally? Perhaps you'd have to explain aspects of your Columbia education that make it worth the 160,000 dollars it costs before financial aid. </p>
<p>Also, many of the programs that are worth their salt allow students to gain a MUCH broader education in liberal arts or whatever they want than the typical pre-med, Bio major, researcher, volunteer student. The programs, economically, give you an incentive to try new things and escape the pre-med cliches: volunteering, research, academics. Think about it; if you knew you were going to get into med school even if you majored in something you liked but which wouldn't help you get into med school, wouldn't you feel more compelled to do that major? You wouldn't be held back or restricted like many pre-meds feel. </p>
<p>I give the programs a big thumbs up as long as they encourage students to keep up a good GPA and allow students to explore to their hearts content. That should be what college ideally is all about for EVERYONE.</p>
<p>I have to say its up to the poster because both are great programs, but I say I might favor Columbia because you can get a better undergraduate education</p>
<p>Thanks so much for the comments---they are helpful to read about, and allow me to see other points of view. Now, Shraf, are you at Columbia? If you are, could you please tell me what you like about it, what you want to pursue, and why you chose Columbia over another school? What year are you? Has the city worn off yet, the vibe, the culture? Sorry to be so interrogative, but these are the things that are forcing me to make a line between Columbia and Stony Brook. In addition, do you know any premeds there? How are they doing? How is the rigor, etc?</p>