<p>Concerning undergraduate majors of English and History, which is considered to be the stronger school?</p>
<p>Columbia, but not by anything significant. Penn is better at business because we don’t have a business program, penn is better at BME and at most sports. Don’t worry, just choose the school of better fit. Overall and in english/history there is nothing that should really swing your decision.</p>
<p>That’s silly. Does anyone know anything about Penn except that it is the home of Wharton?</p>
<p>Both schools have excellent history and english departments. If you can more particularly define your focus (american history, european history, asia, medieval, english literature, early american lit, etc) then you can go even further and look at the faculty at each place and see who might be a superstar in his/her field and how that matches up with your own inclinations. But you can’t go wrong at either place.</p>
<p>Just read Eric Foner’s books and go to University of Pennsylvania. University of Pennsylvania is a fun school. Columbia is an intense school.</p>
<p>New York City > Philadelphia, 'nuff said.</p>
<p>^^^^^ for me it’s probably the opposite.
I’ve lived in nyc for too long and it’s getting real old and as much as I love columbia, I think I want to get out</p>
<p>GO TO COLUMBIA. The campus is so beautifulllllllll. And this is coming from someone who worshiped Penn for three years.</p>
<p>Go with the better fit. It’s undergrad. You can always change or grad school. You have to remember that academics isn’t everything. I don’t mean you forgot…but still lol.</p>
<p>FYI, there are other threads on this board comparing Columbia to Penn. A quick search may yield some useful information.</p>
<p>Agreed, hcvops.</p>
<p>CC > CAS, then.</p>
<p>You need to consider fit more than which english or history dept you study in. that is a bigger consideration for grad school. You really aren’t going to find a massive difference between columbia hist/eng vs. penn’s at an undergrad level. there’s no way that eng or hist consideration will outweigh how much you fit the school. So here are some considerations:</p>
<p>Penn is more of a party school, Columbia is more intellectual, columbia is more politically active, penn is better at sports. Penn is slightly more pre-professional, Columbia is slightly more research oriented. Penn has a warmer more fun campus feel, columbia has a city with greater resources, less crime and more entertainment surrounding it. Both are near areas more crime ridden than campus, although in recent times Harlem is safer than west Philly. Housing is similar, food is similar, mix of students is pretty similar. Both are very international and diverse (columbia edges out penn here but not by anything significant). Penn undergrad is 1.6x the size, penn has more school spirit, Columbia is more mature, adult like campus, endowments are virtually the same. Columbia is definitely much more cynical, and I love it, it’s harsh but it is true and genuine. There are a lot of different factors which make the schools on-balance about equal to me, figure out which ones you care about more and base the decision on that.</p>
<p>Penn’s and Columbia’s english/history departments are equal overall, with their own strengths and weaknesses. Both are among the 10 best in the nation.</p>
<p>If you know that you want to study American history, choose Columbia. It might be the best such department in the world; see Eric Foner, Alan Brinkley, et al.</p>
<p>If you know that you want to study the history of science, sociology, philosophy, intellectual history in general, choose Penn. This too might be one of the finest such departments in the world: see Alan Kors, et al. It’s a damn interesting major.</p>
<p>Penn’s english dept. is a mite stronger than Columbia’s. They have more lecturers and field luminaries, and their undergrad creative writing program is fantastic. PHILIP ROTH taught there until recently, for heaven’s sake. However, if you want to major in strict critical theory and post-structuralism/post-modernism theory, you might want to go the Columbia route.</p>
<p>In terms of intellectualism - the labels that come with these campuses are really nonsense. Columbia is just as JAP-y and pre-professional as Penn; Penn is just as intellectual and “mature” as Columbia. The only thing that matters is the group you tag along with.</p>
<p>As for admissions standards - Columbia is smaller and in New York City, so it draws relatively more applicants for its size, but Penn has equal SAT averages and significantly higher high school GPA/class rank averages; for all intents and purposes, they’re equally selective. Wharton, of course, is more selective than both CC and CAS.</p>
<p>As this is the Columbia board, I’m sure some people will contest this. But let’s face it: Penn, Columbia, Dartmouth and Brown are all on the same level of selectivity. All that matters at that point is personal fit.</p>
<p>For a liberal arts major there is no “better” school among the top 10 or so schools. It will make ZERO, ZILCH, NADA of a difference in terms of grad school, prestige, or anything else. Its all about which school you like more and what style of academics you prefer.</p>
<p>Also totally agree with hvcops about the NYC thing. Too intense of a city for me, personally I think smaller cities are much more suited to undergrads.</p>
<p>Disclaimer: Muerteapablo is a penn student or soon to be penn student, he transferred / is transferring from Cornell and did not get into Columbia</p>
<p>Slipper1234 transferred from Columbia to Dartmouth a couple of years back.</p>
<p>Full disclosure:
I was waitlisted from Columbia, with GPA and SATs far above a fair number on this very board who were accepted… so I’m not exactly in AWE of the place from an academic point of view. It does certainly have a byzantine set of standards for admission, which sadly Eric Furda, a transplant from Columbia, is now putting into place at dear old Penn.</p>
<p>However, I don’t see what any of this has to do with my post, which cited as evidence objective facts (i.e. the existence of Eric Foner, Alan Kors and Philip Roth, the equal SAT average and higher average GPAs of Penn vs. Columbia students, etc.).</p>
<p>Hi there. First of all, Philadelphia is an amazing city…I live right around its suburbs. But what I think what would make Penn a better choice for a history (at least American history) major is that it’s kind of where we (well, the Founding Fathers) built the foundations of our country. Old City is wonderful as a resource and a nice place to explore. So in that respect, maybe Penn would be a good choice. Also, my Penn interviewer was a history major of some sort and immediately got a job after graduating. That probably doesn’t help, but maybe it’s something to think about. </p>
<p>But then again, Columbia/New York have an innumerable amount of resources available that Penn/Philly may not have. Overall, I think Columbia as a school is better than Penn.</p>
<p>muerte: byzantine set of standards? wha? where have you come up with that? It is a tough place to get into because it is not just a city school and not just a school for the super-involved, it does pride itself as being more intellectual than the other Ivies. So does this mean there are no-intellectuals at Penn, of course not. But on average there is more pseudo-intellectualizing at Columbia than its peers. With a university culture and curriculum that encourages that. If you mean finding students that are a good fit for that place = byzantine standards, then I guess it is so, but getting into any of these top schools is going to be difficult and not necessarily obvious by just looking at stats. A lot depends not on how qualified you are in reality, but how you are able to translate that on to paper.</p>
<p>FYI, Furda went to Penn, got his start in admissions in Penn, and is a big fan of his alma.</p>
<p>I like the way you put it. “Byzantine.”</p>
<p>“But on average there is more pseudo-intellectualizing at Columbia than its peers.”</p>
<p>This is a common and accurate stereotype.</p>
<p>That of Penn kids being exceedingly pre-professional and FOB Asian as well.</p>
<p>On second thought, go to UChicago.
You’ve got an awesome city, genuine intellectualism, and strong departments all round.</p>
<p>Quick note- I did transfer out of Columbia but went to Columbia for grad school. I liked Columbia, but didn’t love how the city took away from the campus community. I personally felt that at age 18-22 I wanted more of a “college” feel, while for grad school I felt the city would be of a much greater advantage. Columbia is perfect for some people, and its definitely not uber-urban like an NYU. On the flip side its not a “shiny, happy, people” running around and having snowball fights and BBQs LAC type school either.</p>
<p>^that’s a fair assessment, although freshman have started having snowball fights in the winter, the BBQs are rare. Columbia definitely has a different feel from say Brown, with both positive and negatives as illustrated by slipper.</p>