<p>After browsing some college sites, data set pages, etc., I'm still puzzled. I notice, for instance, that Stanford lists a mean GPA of 3.9 for enrolled students, while UCLA lists 4.13. I'm wondering whether these stats come from the high schools (using HS weighting protocol), or whether these GPAs represent individual colleges' weighting schemes. In other words, are they standard across the board, or not? Anybody know, or can refer me to a good source?</p>
<p>The UCs have their own standards as to what classes they will weight and how many classes they will weight (the "UC GPA"). I am sure that this is the GPA used in their literature.</p>
<p>ellenmope, thanks, I know about UC's weighting scheme for admission from California high schools, but do you think that would work for OOS HSs? Do the UCs attempt to classify/weight course grades from all HSs across the country (and beyond)?</p>
<p>In other words, the common data set is intended (I think) to provide some sort of standard. So you think that Stanford (for example) would populate the GPA field in their data set with their own weighted numbers?</p>
<p>No doubt there are many ways to weight. How to compare?</p>
<p>I don't know how widespread the following practice is:
University of Michigan re-figures all GPAs on a strict 4-point scale, no weighting, and then has a separate calculation for "academic rigor," thereby getting around all the various gpa calculation methods employed by high schools.</p>
<p>There is no standard. For that reason, GPA statistics are virtually worthless. They only make sense in the context of the particular high school.</p>
<p>Many colleges don't even report GPA for their incoming classes because it is so useless. Class rank is where it's at. The colleges can figure that out even for schools that "don't report class rank".</p>
<p>Stanford recalculates GPA. They use unweighted GPA, counting only academic classes.</p>
<p>but but but ... don't the ranking organizations (USNewsWR, etc.) use GPA from the CDS in their rankings?</p>
<p>celloguy:</p>
<p>Yes, the UCs interpret OOS grades; they have a couple of admissions folks who only read OOS apps. Similar to a private college, if the UC reader does not know the OOS HS curriculum, they are supposed to do some research, and interpolate the grades based on UC standards.</p>
<p>Celloguy, There is quite a bit of "fudge factor" built into what is reported on the CDS. Some schools will recompute, using only core classes, to make admissions decisions, but use the higher, weighted GPA average in their report to the CDC, others exclude certain groups of students, etc..</p>
<p>Keep in mind that the CDS is not a legal document. It is not overseen by any government agency. It is purely a VOLUNTARY submission of data to guidebooks and publishers. Schools do all sorts of things to make their GPAs and test scores look better than they really are, so take them as a data point, not something set in stone.</p>
<p>There is also no consistency in how colleges use GPA's in admissions decisions. There are hundreds of variations. This is why I tell my students to ask EVERY school that is of interest these two questions: "Will you use the GPA that is reported on my transcript or will you recompute it? If you'll recompute it, what will you include and how will you compute it?" </p>
<p>And, InterestedDad is correct: most colleges aren't as interested in the GPA in and of itself as most here assume. They're looking at grade trends in relation to the rigor of the high school curriculum. They're not dummies: they know that someone with a 4.0 in straight college prep classes is not the same as someone with a 4.0 taking mainly honors and AP classes. They also get plenty of clues about the rigor of the high school from reading the school profile.</p>
<p>ID is also correct in that colleges can -and do - guestimate class rank, even if the school says it does not rank. The importance of class rank, however, varies from college to college.</p>
<p>interesteddad:</p>
<p>IMO, the same problems exist in comparing class ranks as comparing gpas.</p>
<p>e.g., Student A is taking a very rigorous course load in a HS that does not weight grades. He has up an unweighted gpa of, say, 3.85 and ends up being ranked, say 15, behind several students who played it safe and took no AP classes and got all A's.</p>
<p>Student B, in a high school that weights grades, with the same schedule and the same grades, has a weighted gpa of, say, 4.25 and a resulting class rank of, say, 3.</p>
<p>Comparing student A's rank of 15 to student B's rank 3 doesn't accurately tell the AC much of anything.</p>
<p>Many, if not most, colleges aren't comparing GPAs and class rank in the sense you mean, Mafool. They're looking at the individual student's curriculum, the individual grades across subjects and years, and how the student performed in the context of his or her high school. They're not just saying, "hey, this kid has a 4.0 and that kid has a 3.5 - let's admit the 4.0!" That's where class rank, curriculum rigor, and other information about the high school comes into play.</p>
<p>I agree with Carolyn....GPA, rank, rigor of courseload, are all viewed in the context of a student's own high school.</p>
<p>Yes, but the CDS is used in multiple ways. I agree that colleges handle GPAs in the way described by Carolyn. But GPAs are not looked at in context when used to compare one college's admitted student population against another.</p>
<p>Carolyn:</p>
<p>Yep. The colleges are looking at the student's transcript in the context of what they know about the high school in order to come up with an academic ranking: a 1, a 2 or whatever.</p>
<p>It just kills me to see the number of "chances" threads here that provide endless lists of grades in every high school course or a simple listing of GPA with no context -- as if either of those approaches sheds any light on how the applicant might be viewed.</p>
<p>Carolyn:</p>
<p>Just curious, but why do you "tell my students to ask EVERY school that is of interest these two questions: "Will you use the GPA that is reported on my transcript or will you recompute it? If you'll recompute it, what will you include and how will you compute it?" It is what it is, and it is (as you state) one factor of many considered for admissions, so what difference does it make to the student to know exactly what number the school uses (other than curiousity)?</p>
<p>Yes, Carolyn, I agree. I was <em>trying</em> to point out that putting a great deal of stock in rank alone was not useful.</p>
<p>Marite said:
[quote]
Yes, but the CDS is used in multiple ways. I agree that colleges handle GPAs in the way described by Carolyn. But GPAs are not looked at in context when used to compare one college's admitted student population against another.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes, Marite, this is what I was getting at -- whether the GPA reported in the various institutions' common data set represented any sort of standard for comparing admitted student population. If, as nngmm says, Stanford recalculates and reports unweighted GPA (e.g., mean 3.9), and the UCs report weighted academic a-g GPA (e.g., UCLA mean 4.13), then the UCs seem to be padding their CDS stats to appear more selective.</p>
<p>celloguy,</p>
<p>The Common Data Set Initiative is a collaborative effort that establishes standard reporting parameters and formats (which are sometimes loosely adhered to by some participating institutions -- i.e., some will not address all options because they are not applicable). To answer your question, though, all schools who participate in the CDS Initiative provide grades based on a 4.0 scale (that is, UNWEIGHTED for AP/Honors courses), including all UC campuses.</p>
<p>See the Common Data Set Initiative to understand their proforma: <a href="http://www.commondataset.org/%5B/url%5D">http://www.commondataset.org/</a></p>
<p>If you look at UCLA's last available CDS (2005-2006), you will see that they adhere to the CDS use of the 4.0 scale (Unweighted GPA):
<a href="http://www.aim.ucla.edu/data/campus/general/cds0506.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.aim.ucla.edu/data/campus/general/cds0506.pdf</a></p>