Communicating with BGOs

Colleges and Universities A-Z Naval Academy - Annapolis
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You son needs a better reason than that, as in what does he want to do after he graduates? He's going to have quite a committment and the relative closeness to one's home will not mean anything at that point.

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<p>Right on the money here - distance should not be a factor. Your son will be committing to a career - either in the Air Force or the Navy. That career even if only 5 years active duty, will require 3 years reserve or IRR and he may be deployed for part of that reserve time. So look at it as an 8 year career, at least. Twice as long as his time at an academy.</p>

<p>Time to do some homework and have a conversation with that BGO.</p>

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<p>Unlike others on these forums, I realize that not every prospective cadet/midshipmen has made the final decision for their life's purpose, yet they still want to attend a service academy and serve their country. Having personal experience with three of them I can say that deciding which one is the right one can be daunting to a student. They are all so alike, and yet all a bit different. It is difficult for most kids to decide what they want to do while a teenager. It is easy to dispense advice from afar. A rhetorical question can sometimes help one make a decision.</p>

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<p>fencersmother: A family friend who is now a USNA plebe received offers of appointment last year to USNA, USAFA, USMA, and was offered ROTC scholarships of all flavors. He had wanted to attend USNA for years, and had been a Sea Cadet, but he was willing to serve in another branch, if necessary.</p>

<p>This year, my d started applications to USNA and USAFA, although she really wanted to go Navy. After attending both summer seminars, she confirmed to herself that Navy is right for her, so she dropped the USAFA application. She has applied for an NROTC scholarship, and two of the three other schools to which she has applied have strong NROTC programs (the other, local school is a true "safety" school). So far, she has an LOA from USNA, and we're hoping the other 2Qs follow. </p>

<p>So, it can be done either way. If your son hasn't visited any of the academies, I would strongly recommend it, even if you can only visit one. The most important thing, from what everyone has told us, is the level of your son's desire to serve, and to do whatever it takes to win an appointment and make it through four challenging years at an academy.</p>

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<p>Concur 100%. As much as I'd hate to lose a great candidate to another service or service academy, I have a hard time knocking anyone who wants to apply to all of them, and then make a tough choice about which one to attend after being well-informed. A lot of the candidates don't even know much about the academies until junior year in high school, when they start getting serious about college.</p>

<p>Unless you have a parent who attended or a sibling at one particular academy, it's hard to know anything about them or what lies in front of you, and as I've said before, I truly beleive that if I'd chosen USMA over USNA, I'd think the sun rose and set on West Point. I applaud anyone who enters any of them - for the right reasons, of course - with the commitment to serve the country.</p>

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<p>From a USMA admissions rep:

[quote]
application to all the academies, with no stated purpose for
the applications other than going to a free first-rate institution can be
an indication of being unfamiliar with each academy's purpose, or the
willingness to accept alternate and sometimes divergent career goals.

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<p>Many kids do apply to and are accepted at multiple SA's. My own opened applications at 3 SA's - it worked out for her.</p>

<p>You both are correct - early in the process many kids don't know what they want. Hopefully, they spent time last summer researching the different services and careers and have begun to form some career goals.</p>

<p>At this point in the game - seniors are finishng their nomination packages and preparing for interviews. MOC's approach this all differently but here in PA you only get to choose 1 academy to be considered for a nomination. Additionally, our congressman requires candidates to rank their preference.</p>

<p>I don't think it would reflect well on a candidate who puts USNA for one senator, USAFA for the other and ranks USMA as #1 with the CP. Playing this game could be disasterous. </p>

<p>Think about what Service you want first - you will spend most of your time there - on the job.</p>

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I don't think it would reflect well on a candidate who puts USNA for one senator, USAFA for the other and ranks USMA as #1 with the CP. Playing this game could be disasterous.

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<p>A very good point. The MOC's in Georgia require each applicant to show their order of preference and it does the applicant no good to try and "play the game" with them. What the applicants might not realize is that the nominating committees DO talk to each other and they will know if someone is trying to cop a plum from each academy.</p>

<p>In my opinion, which is worth the paper you're reading this on (exactly), I would recommend that any applicant put their order of preference for any and all of the academies they would be willing to attend. This allows for each MOC's committee to grant the most spots to the best qualified individuals. And if the candidate does not require their acceptance to one particular academy, then they stand a much better chance of serving their country and getting one of the finest educations money can't buy. It was our experience, times three, that the committees appreciated this rather than scoffed at the approach. Local MALOs even suggested it. It shows a willingness to serve by the applicant if given the opportunity.</p>

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<p>To me, candidates who “wants to serve their country” and have done their homework, will have narrowed their choices down to one or two academies. I can see someone who wants to fly applying to both USAFA and USNA. Also, one who wants to lead troops applying to both USMA and USNA. Beyond that, their reasoning usually starts to break down. Ask your candidate how he wants to serve his country. He has to have a preference. If not, again the question of an outstanding free education has to surface. As an MOC board member I have probably seen in excess of one hundred qualified candidates and as a BGO, slightly more. Less than 20%, which is in line with USNA statistics, have applied to two academies and those are usually the aviation or leading troop reasons. Only a handful have applied to more than two. </p>

<p>Since the primary hurdle is a nomination and all MOC boards are unique, one cannot get in trouble by defending a single choice. Some, the ones I sat on specifically, see multiple applications as indecision. You may say they are only teenagers who have not really looked at college until their junior year, but they are the cream of the crop, mature beyond their years. They should know what they are getting into. The nomination boards expect it.</p>

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<p>Do all candidates have a B&G Officer? My son is at the academy already and we never heard from a B&G Officer.</p>

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<p>^^^^^^^^Unless he is a recruited athlete in football or basketball, the Admissions Board will not review his record unless the BGO interview is complete. Or so they say.</p>

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<p>He is a recruited athlete. I feel like he missed out on not having a BGO. Many of his friends (also recruited athletes) had BGOs---they still keep in touch with each other.</p>

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<p>In the hyper-competitive areas for nominations and appointments, my sense is that the MOC's will use anything to screen out anyone who shows the least bit of indecisiveness on which academy to attend, or whose application for nomination is not absolutely spot-on perfect. If you're from a state where service academies don't get a lot of visibility, you stand a pretty good chance of earning appointments at all three if you're qualified, and yes, if you're a superstar in a hyper-competitive area you may be appointed to all three as well. Good-on-ya.</p>

<p>I could be way off on this, but one of the tactics that I find the most disagreeable is the "Would you be interested in the Merchant Marine Academy?" tactic employed by the nomination advisory board - or whatever their called - for our senior Senator from VA. Typically, a member of the selection committee will call the prospective candidates and ask them some questions. I have had several candidates tell me after the fact that the person calling - usually a retired Naval Officer - was trying to sell them on the idea of King's Point over Annapolis. The persuasive argument goes, "Well, did you know that you can get a Navy commission from King's Point?" and "It's a Service Academy very similar to Annapolis..." or words to that effect. </p>

<p>Two of my otherwise promising candidates were not considered for nominations to USNA from that Senator, but were offered noms for USMMA - a school which neither had heard of until the call, nor had any desire to attend. One got in to USNA, and one did not. They told me that they were concerned that if they said, "No," then it would be interpreted as a negative thing by the board. "Why would someone turn down an offer of nomination for an academy?" was their thinking. What was really meant by the question was, "Hey, you don't look good to us for USNA, how 'bout something else?" I really dislike that practice, however well-intentioned. No disrespect intended to USMMA, by the way.</p>

<p>I have now counseled my advisees that they may be asked that question, and that they should look at USMMA to determine whether they have any interest so they can give an informed, honest answer if asked. Not one so far has said after looking into it, "Yeah, USMMA - I like that idea." Again, no disrespect to those folks.</p>

<p>I was told personally by that Senator's academy coordinator that they received 300 requests for noms for all of the academies that year - 150 for USNA, and 150 for the other three that require noms, including USMMA.</p>

<p>When you get right down to it, the whole notion of nominations is a little anachronistic, and could be done a lot more simply. I realize the purpose is to ensure relatively proportional distribution among the states based on population, but you don't really need to get an MOC's blessing to do that. In fact, most of the MOC's I deal with (6, on occasion) do not have boards of grads/retired military officers for selection. They let the academy rank-order the candidates and send them the list. They usually choose the top ten candidates from the list, and yes, they do coordinate somewhat with the Senators to ensure that the same kids don't get nominated three times.</p>

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<p>^^ The BGO said essentially the same thing tonight here at my home. He said that our MOC sends his list to the acads, perhaps with his suggested rankings, and then the acads send him a list back. Usually, he goes with the list the acads send back. Since my S is a recruited athlete, I wonder how it will go for him.</p>

<p>The BGO asked my S if he would be interested in a "prep" school - with great SATs and 4.0 (including all A's in college-34 credits as of now, including advanced calc, physics, chemistry, etc. No baby coursework at all, and S is just now a senior in high school). S was shocked! Always politic, S said he'd consider it, but I am not sure he meant it, nor am I sure he should. Maybe this is one of those "Have you considered the MMA" questions? Standard, just to see how you'll react?</p>

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<p>Don't be offended - It's on our list of standard questions to ask. "Discussed NAPS? Foundation?" Yes, and yes - we check the boxes on the interview form. In fact, most of the kids we interview are probably either in the category of academically qualified, or pretty darn close. I have only interviewed one or two that weren't in the top 10-15% of their class. Almost all have been NHS members, varsity athletes or musicians. You know, grade A, All-American kids. The Admissions office does a pretty good job of pre-screening candidates. Some are just stronger than others...</p>

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<p>I don't think he was offended - just very surprised. I think he had never even thought about it before, and at first, thought he was deemed "not ready." His dad and I talked it over with him and told him it was probably just a standard question (like on the Penn State application "Would you consider a branch campus?"). Anyway, it did check it out online though hasn't given me any feedback yet.</p>

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<p>I think you are way off. Unless they are using it as a subversive "test" to see if the candidates are truly only interested in a Naval career, and even then, I see it as an education process. Like you stated, few high school students have heard of USMMA. When I do presentations, I always state that they should look at all the academies. I have even attempted to get the local MALO and ALO to go with me to all my presentations and do a dual presentation but they won't go along with it. And also, during individual discussions with candidates I have occassionally told them WP or USMMA might be a better fit. </p>

<p>We have to have informed candidates and they need to make their decisions based on facts. Why hide something from them?</p>

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<p>I tried the same thing a couple of years ago - getting the MALO and ALO to go with me to present to the schools' guidance folks jointly. They respectfully declined, even though I was trying to educate the schools on the Service Academies' application process - not why USNA was better than the others. There always seem to be a lot of questions from the schools who don't get a lot of applicants. "Why do these kids need to get 4 sets of transcripts? Umpteen teacher recommendations?, etc."</p>

<p>Educating the schools' administrative folks on the process is as important as educating the applicants.</p>

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<p>Somewhat odd experience happened to my son. He’d made up his mind that he would serve in one of the Maritime services no matter what the outcome of his 3 academy applications. MMA was always #1 as he’d learned about it through NJROTC. That whole Sea Year thing hooked him. Coast Guard was #2 and USNA, #3. It was listed in this order on all of his nomination sources that asked for choices in order. Coast Guard was the first to contact him for an interview. They’d sent a wonderful gentleman to our home and it felt more like a visit than interview. He was so patient in asking & answering questions and did so over a three hour period which Dad & I made a pact beforehand to be quiet through. Upon seeing him to the door with the ending handshakes & thank you for coming, he looked directly at son and said, “Son, with some of your views on things & what I think you‘d do well in studying, I think you should apply to West Point”. Talk about keeling over. To this day, I still wonder what he’d seen to form that opinion. He must have seen something much like what 69 describes. His BGO for USNA was a Napster & really pushed hard to get him an offer for NAPS as he had a weak math background. Fortunately, he was offered his first choice & its all history now. But boy, what a wild ride. If he ends up a Coast Guard Officer in the end, it will somehow be rather ironic. He’s remained in contact with his BGO and was invited to speak about MMA at the high school where the BGO teaches. The BGO feels the same as USNADad&Grad that the school needs to know more about what happens during the application process, how schools are involved and what the alternatives are to direct appointments. Applications to Service Academies are confusing enough without having the school’s knowledge of whats going on. I had no idea that the applications would involve so many people’s help.</p>

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<p>It seems that for some 17 year olds, they might know they want a military career, but sometimes, they are just not sure of which service. Or, sometimes they have a picture in their minds (mostly thanks to Hollywood) of what going into the Navy is like, or the CG (thanks to Kevin Costner!), etc. </p>

<p>That was a really terrific video the BGO had last night. Wow. My S said that he would not be able to choose between USNA and USAFA on the basis of the females! Lovely young women all, in his 17 y.o. opinion!</p>

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<p>OH! I forgot to tell you all what happened: When the BGO mentioned "the Oath" S would have to take, S stood up, in my living room, and recited it verbatim. I think BGO was really taken aback by that. If S gets nomination, I am sure that moment will have something to do with it.</p>

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<p>Damn, I wish I could get into the Academy just with my flashy performances.</p>