Could the veterans here guide us novices on how to compare Match lists? I saw a lot of ivy names in the residencies for the schools I compared but some of those are in Italic while rest are normal text. The italicizes ones say ‘Translational’ or ‘Preliminary’. Preliminary is sometimes by itself, other times with something else, like ‘prelim/dermatology’ .
Could the lnowledgeable ones here please educate the rest of us how to compare/rank medical schools based on their match lists?
Could the veterans like @narkor @texaspg @Empire007 @HS2DMed @path2md @GoldenRock @Undecided3494 @WayOutWestMom @mom2collegekids please help out us novices that have more than one BSMD admission for their kids and are trying to help them compare the medical schools? Many of us would be grateful for your timely advice.
@Mom22DDs IMHO, the best way to compare med schools (ignoring financial commitments), is if your DD knows what she would like to focus in (might be hard for a 17 year old to know that at this point), to compare the match lists for the graduates. It will show the Hospital they end up in and the field of medicine they will be focusing on in residency. Also if there is any data out there on the average step scores of the graduates, which I believe would be a good indicator on how well the training is.
Thank you @Empire007 . Not sure how many of BSMD kids know what specialty they want to get into already, and I heard that most of them change their minds after going through rotations and finding out what they enjoy. Would you have some knowledge to share on the match lists themselves, especially the Translational/Preliminary vs others? If a school has lot of translational or preliminary placements, especially preliminary without accompanying specialty, does that indicate the students didn’t get into any of their other regular choices? That is somewhat indicative of the school’s scores, isn’t it?
@Mom22DDs that’s not something I am familiar with, maybe someone else with more knowledge on that subject than me could chime in. For us we looked at the hospital accepted to and researched the quality and ranking of the particular hospital. Then looked at the specialty of study to see whether there was a lot of offers in the area of study my child was interested in. My child has a specific personal reason in the selection of the field to specialize in, so we were researching for that in the multiple offers obtained.
What you are trying to compare are residency programs. There are two types: preliminary or transitional (the terms are used interchangeably) and categorical with the type of residency program dependent upon the specialty and the program. Typical specialties that may have a transitional/categorical year include neurology, dermatology, radiology, anesthesiology, and a few others.
In a categorical residency program, you spend all years of training in the specialty. In a transitional/categorical residency program, your first year (ie. intern year) you are completing general training–usually internal medicine or general surgery–depending on the specialty before entering the residency.
If you chose a residency that has a preliminary/transitional year, you will need to match at both the intern program and the residency program. Sometimes the two programs are in different cities requiring the person to move twice.
Hope this helps but I know that there are others, mentioned above, who can add more information.
Thank you @JazzyTXMom ! Do you know about Transitional or Preliminary only residency placements (no specialty follow-ons)? I read somewhere that this is a backup students put down if they are concerned about not getting into any categorical programs, and those students that place into these 1 year only programs then have to apply again for categorical program. That doesn’t sound good, but is that how it is?
I do not know anything about transitional/preliminary only placements and am not sure that exists. The intern would not be eligible for any type of board-certification. Residency programs with a transitional/preliminary year usually have an arrangement with a program for the intern year so that those slots are reserved. I suppose that if a program did not fill all their slots with the match and there is someone who did not match, they can do a transitional year but will still need to look for a position for the next year(s).
Thank you @JazzyTXMom . I’m hoping others more familiar with the residency placements will weigh in this weekend. I’ll bump it around noon tomorrow to get their interest.
I have to disagree with the statement that STEP score are a reflection of the quality of instruction at a med school. STEP scores are much more a reflection of 2 things: 1) the student’s ability to perform well on standardized exams; 2) the effort and preparation that the individual has put into getting ready for the STEP exams. Just like undergrad schools do not specifically prepare students for the MCAT, med schools do not specifically prepare med students for the USMLE. Students are taught/exposed to the material, but retaining/relearning/memorizing/internalizing (or whatever you want to call it) the material and familiarizing oneself with the testing format is strictly on the student’s head. And there is a correlation between MCAT scores and USMLE scores. (High MCAT tends to correlate w/high USMLE.)
Reading a match list is an exercise in pointlessness–there are so many variables involved that you have no idea of why certain people matched where because you don’t know where they applied or what the reasoning was behind their application lists were. (For example,not all students are willing to relocate to locales distant from their med school/home town due to family obligations–like children enrolled in local schools or aging parents or spouses who cannot relocate-- and only apply to a limited number of programs in their desired geographic area. Some students despise highly urban/ highly rural areas and don’t apply to any programs in those areas. Some students red box any program located in X, Y or Z state and don’t apply there no matter how highly the programs there may be.) And more importantly we parents as lay persons really don’t what program are strong in what specialties. Top brand name med schools are not necessarily top ranked in each & every specialty they offer. Some community based residency programs in some specialties may be much more highly regarded than an academic residency in the same field.
Reading a match list to see how many grad match into X specialty is like reading tea leaves–the choice of specialty is extremely personal and more dependent on personality (and STEP scores for competitive fields) than anything else. The distribution of specialty choices from year-to-year will vary hugely.
Transitional and preliminary are not interchangeable. While both are one year terminal programs and both are used by students who match into R2 specialities, the intent behind transitional and preliminary programs are different. Transitional programs are usually pretty cushy intern years (with limited call and nice hours) that rotate thru all specialties both medical and surgical. There is no possibility at these programs that the student can stay past the intern year. Transitional years are only available to students who are also applying for R2 specialties. Preliminary programs run the gamut from cushy to malignant. These program are provisional 1 year placements into either medicine (IM) or surgery (gen surg) but offer the possibility that students in them could be offered an continuing contract and can move into a categorical position at that program. (Some R2 positions require applying thru ERA/NRMP; some do not.)
So why do some grads who have R2 matches also match into prelims instead of transitional programs–there aren’t enough transitional slots to accommodate all graduates who have R2 matches. Also students for their own reasons may wish to spend their intern year in particular location where only prelim years are offered.
A med school where the bulk of its graduates match into prelim or transitional programs and there is no additional R2 specialty match doesn’t tell me that the students have scored poorly on the USMLE --although that could be part of the issue–it tells me the residency advising given to the M4s at that school is bad.
Many prelim-only matches are matches than happen during SOAP because the student didn’t match during the main match. In this sense they are back-up positions, but a prelim-only programs with no follow-ons are usually not a choice a student will rank during the main match unless it’s way, way, way down at the bottom of their rank list or the only program they got an interview at. (Both of which are result of bad advising, hubris on the part of the applicant or some sort of terrible red flag in the candidate’s record).
Some prelim-only matches happen when an applicant matches to a prelim program then fails to match into a R2 specialty. In that case, the candidate will have to re-enter the Match the next year either in hoping to match into a R2 specialty position or into a categorical IM or surgery position.
Thank you @WayOutWestMom ! I feel that I need to read through your reply a few more times to fully absorb it. On quick read, I take that schools where students match more into Preliminary/Transitional programs without R2 should be looked at less favorably as they may not be giving the right guidance to all their students. So, we could compare two match lists and consider one of them more favorable than the other. Would you agree?
Basically, my DD is accepted into multiple BSMD programs that are in different states, and is waiting to hear back on a couple more. She would like to go to the school that gives her the best prospects, regardless of location, and has no strong preference for any specific school. she views one favorably for the Dean and good support system, but doesn’t know if she’ll be accepted to it or not, and she’s realized she needs to not get attached. Most of the offers she has are near full-ride for UG, and we’ve agreed to pay for medical school. She doesn’t know what area she’d like to go into. Rankings for medical schools seem quite unreliable, so we’re trying to see how she can compare between the schools based on the results (match lists) to identify which school might have better prospects for her in general. Other suggestions to allow her to compare the schools would be very much welcome.
I’m sure we’re not the only ones with this (welcome) problem, so hoping that veterans weigh in and those like us share their considerations and seek advice they’d benefit from.
P.S. Jazzy mom is right. One year of internship will not make a med grad eligible for board certification. To be BE–board eligible-- one must complete a recognized residency program and graduate from it in good standing. BC–board certified-- requires taking and passing a national standardized exam (written, although anesthesiology still requires a several hour oral exam in addition to the written exam) on specialty topics.
However, AMGs who complete an intern year (including an intern year done at a transitional or prelim program) are eligible for medical licenses in all 50 states and all US territories. One you have medical license you can work as licensed physician.
(US-IMGs and FMGs must complete at least 3 years of a residency program to become eligible for medical license.)
@WayOutWestMom - I’m confused about how to compare medial schools if the match list is not an indicator and the rankings are not reliable, especially for mid or low tier schools. Is there no reliable way to compare two schools objectively, say NJMS and FAU?
FWIW, not all schools include R2 matches on their match list.
Match lists are pretty useless for choosing a med school. They are not a reflection of the school as whole, but more a reflection of the interests and choices made by individual students in a given year.
I would select tell your D to choose a MD program which she feels is the best “fit” personally and financially. One where she feels she has good support and the opportunity to pursue her interests–whatever they turn out to be because right now she doesn’t have a clue…
Successful residency matching into a chosen field has so much more to do with individual achievement/interest/personality than it does with what med school one attends.
As an example, one of the Florida med schools (FSU maybe?) doesn’t even have a neurosurgery program at its hospital (meaning there aren’t any neurosurgeons on staff and student can’t do a rotation in neurosurg) yet almost every year it matches one its grads into neurosurgery.
Thank you @WayOutWestMom . DD does not have a specialization preference at this time. I’ll ask her to shortlist her options and then seek out specific advice on that list of schools so she can decide fit.
Comparing med schools can be done, but it doesn’t involve match lists.
It involves preferences --like P/F vs graded didactic years; quality of clinical rotations (which is going to change over time since faculty involved changes over time); mandatory vs non-mandatory lecture attendance; mandatory dress codes; availability of support services like psychological counseling & academic support/tutoring; location, safety and distance of clinical rotation sites; availability of research opportunities for competitive specialties; early clinical immersion vs traditional 2+2 scheduling; PBL vs. traditional lecture; curricular structure including the use of flipped instruction methods and self-paced learning, compressed vs non-compressed curriculum…
These are the things that will make a huge diffference in her med school experience and possibly her success in med school.
Thank you so much @WayOutWestMom !! I’ll pass this very useful info to DD so she can start gathering this info for the schools she’s considering (and hoping to get accepted to 
to make a logical choice.
Bump. Some of the students are fortunate to have multiple choices for BSMD. Hoping others would weigh in with their experience on how they/their DCs decided between the schools and what they recommend for the students to consider.