<p>I’d rank my favorite chardonnay fourth or fifth on my list of favorite cabernets.</p>
<p>slipper wrote:
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<p>That’s because Dartmouth IS the number one LAC in the country. I have no problem with that, and frankly, I don’t think most Dartmouth grads would either.</p>
<p>Dartmouth College is a misnomer. It’s a university, thus it cannot be considered a LAC.</p>
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<p>If you are shopping for an undergraduate education, it seems to me that the criterion that primarily interests you is the quality of the undergraduate education you will receive. Personally, I don’t think any of the rating schemes do a very good job of teasing that out. Certainly PA doesn’t perform this job well at all.</p>
<p>leanid,</p>
<p>What characteristics or attributes of Dartmouth make it more of a “National Ph.D. University” than a “Liberal Arts College”. Please be specific.</p>
<p>Dun,</p>
<p>Perhaps if one uses the criterion you provided then it would fall more into the LAC category. However, based on Dartmouth’s graduate/professional schools of business, engineering and medicine, it is clearly much more than that. If not a university, what is it?</p>
<p>leanid: Good question. I don’t think Dartmouth fits perfectly into either category. I would list us as an LAC-like-entity with several good professional schools, but a fairly small phd program. Dartmouth certainly takes the LAC approach to teaching first more than research first in their philosophy. As a note interest compare our #1 undergraduate teaching ranking with our relatively low PA score (which has consistently pulled down our ranking). As the undergrad teaching ranking was generated from peer assessment, it shows how much of a bias there is for research in the general PA score.</p>
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<p>“That’s because Dartmouth IS the number one LAC in the country. I have no problem with that, and frankly, I don’t think most Dartmouth grads would either.”</p>
<p>In a futile attempt to be a top university and top LAC, Dartmouth does a half-assed job at both.</p>
<p>Lack of resources and manpower to pump out research and catch up up with the universities; presence of graduate students and professional schools pervert and undermine the ideals of LACs.</p>
<p>That’s actually a point I’ve wondered about. The “small universities” as a group bill themselves as having the best of both worlds, but could the reality be they have the worst of both worlds?? I really don’t know, myself. My wife attended such a school, and the experience she describes is more of the “big u” variety- big lectures for intro courses, profs cared about grad students more than undergrads, etc. Except maybe with, for the most part, less renowned profs, dumber TAs and fewer resources or available activities than I had. But possibly it depends on the particular school and the times.</p>
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<p>In my opinion, Dartmouth fits in more as an LAC than as a university, given its absence of postgrad offering. </p>
<p>What’s really the difference between Williams and Dartmouth other than Dartmouth has Tuck and a med school?</p>
<p>There is no reason why Ph.D. and professional students being on the campus of a small university necessarily negatively affects the undergraduate experience. It might, if the graduate students occupy the Professors’ time in a way that reduces the Professors’ contact and mentoring of undergraduates. It might, if Ph.D. students are hired to teach classes or discussion sections. It might, if Ph.D. or professional students use budget that would have improved facilities for undergraduates but are instead diverted to facilities used exclusively or primarily by Ph.D. or professional students.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I can see how a small professional and Ph.D. student population might be effectively used to mentor and influence undergraduates in common fields… for example, if Dartmouth undergrads interested in business are able to take selected courses at Tuck, or are able to socialize with Tuck students on campus, undergraduates might benefit from these more seasoned students who bring with them contacts and access to desirable companies and opportunities.</p>
<p>Dartmouth has about 4000 undergrads and 1700 in graduate and professional programs, including 600 grad students in arts and sciences. Amherst has no graduate programs at all. Princeton has 5000 undergraduates and 2500 graduates.
It seems to me that Dartmouth is a university, albeit a fairly small one. (Heck, it’s more of a university than a place like Elon, which has 5000 undergrads and 700 grads).</p>
<p>^^^So, it’s merely a matter of long division? In that case, Wesleyan (2600 u/g and 300 grads in arts and science) would come pretty close to being a university, too.</p>
<p>Hunt: However, there is very little overlap between our grad and undergrad schools. One must go out of their way to encounter a grad student here in my experience. However, that’s not to say we don’t get to enjoy some of the benefits of having those programs around (like the several tuck classes offered to undergrads or opportunities for research in the med school). Also, Dartmouth’s mission is first and foremost undergraduate focus (note we ranked 1 in the undergraduate teaching USNWR ranking). While maintaining a few excellent professional schools, and several grad programs, the focus and majority of attention still goes to undergrads (such as the lack of TA’s at Dartmouth, where every class is taught by a prof).</p>
<p>^A non-rhetorical question, because I’m genuinely curious: do grad students at Dartmouth run discussion sections or labs? That, to me, is a true mark of an LAC (where professors must lead every discussion section if there are multiple).</p>
<p>And if the answer is no, then how do D’mouth grad students get teaching training?</p>
<p>Keil: Generally, if there is a discussion session, it is set up and led by a professor. However, the labs are often overseen by graduate students. As a further note, all professors are required to host open office hours every week, Which I have found invaluable in some instances.</p>
<p>“In that case, Wesleyan (2600 u/g and 300 grads in arts and science) would come pretty close to being a university, too.”</p>
<p>Hence, Wesleyan University. ;)</p>
<p>I also wonder when I hear that every class is taught by a professor, whether there are sections with TAs. Does Dartmouth have any large lecture classes with sections? If so, it seems unlikely that the professor would lead all the sections.</p>
<p>We do have several larger lecture classes with multiple sections (intro bio and intro calculus are the two that come to mind). However, when there are multiple sections different professors teach each section. Such as my intro bio class had 2 profs teaching it, and the other section had 2 different profs teaching theirs (D does intro bio a little strange, where they have 2 profs from different specialties [ecology and molecular] tag team teach). The intro calc class had 3 sections I believe, each led by a different prof. But in answer to your questions, TA’s do not teach any classes or sections at Dartmouth (There is one exception, which is of is one lower level math courses, where a math grad students teaches in conjunction with a prof, because there is a teaching segment required for grad level math)</p>
<p>Apparently TAs do lead some discussion sections at Dartmouth:</p>
<p>[Ask</a> Dartmouth - Academics](<a href=“http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ask/categories/academics/04.html]Ask”>http://www.dartmouth.edu/~ask/categories/academics/04.html)</p>