— mod, please make this featured discussion if you find it informative —
Hello everyone. I am a non-traditional student in my late 20s who have spent a great time applying and exploring my options for a top-notch undergrad education. I found myself at a disadvantage competing with college-bound seniors and also wanted to find an environment that provides a better fit for more mature students thus exclusively considered non-trad programs. I used a lot of resources on CC and received great advices from CC members thus now I would like to sum up my “Non-trad Ivy League hunt” for other high-achieving adult students.
In this summary, I will compare and contrast the following Ivy League non-trad programs/schools:
<li>Harvard Extension School (HES)</li>
<li>Columbia School of General Studies (CGS)</li>
<li>University of Penn College of Liberal and Professional Studies (LPS)</li>
<li>Brown Resumed Undergraduate Education (RUE)</li>
<li>Yale Eli Whitney Program (YEW)</li>
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Application Admission:
<li>HES: HES follows the policy of open-enrollment meaning that everyone can apply and take classes with no requirement (exception: if you are an international student whose first language is not English, you will have to satisfy language requirement - TOEFL iBT 100+) However in order to receive a degree, you will have to go through admission process. For admission to a degree program, the student will have to complete three prereq courses earning a B grade or higher. Approximately under 5% of enrolled students at HES are admitted to a degree program. So while it’s true that HES isn’t the “real Harvard,” it’s no community college. Degree candidates at HES take a fairly rigorous coursework.</li>
<li>CGS: Normally students who took a break of more than 1 year or are over 21 will be encouraged to apply for CGS instead of Columbia College. Admission to CGS, although might not be as competitive as Columbia College, is reported to be selective expecting students having 3.0 GPA or higher and suitable ECs for serious consideration. Admission process is need-blind.</li>
<li>LPS: Similar to CGS, LPS focuses on adult students. Indeed students under 21 will only be admitted to LPS as part-time students. The admission process is reportedly selective as well expecting students having at least 3.0 GPA and decent ECs. If a student was rejected by other schools at Penn, he will have to wait 1 year before being eligible to apply for LPS. Students can be admitted on a provisional basis meaning that he will be advised to take part-time courseload and will only be fully admitted upon completing 4 C.Us (~ 12 credits) with a B average or higher. Admission process is need-blind.</li>
<li>RUE: It’s actually an admission program rather than a school. RUE admits student to Brown undegraduate school with all the same perks. It is extremely competitive (admits around 10% of the 70 applicants each year.) If you are applying as a freshman (no previous college or less then 1 semester in college) then the admission is need-blind. If you are applying as a transfer then it’s need-aware.</li>
<li>YEW: An admission program as well. YEW is also extremely competitive and admits only a handful from its pool of hundreds of applicants. You have to have a break of at least 5 year from education in order to be eligible to apply for YEW. The admission process is need-blind.</li>
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Tuition & Financial Aid
<li>HES: Tuition is around $1,000 per course (3-4 credits.) Special Students taking courses at Harvard College is expected to be normal Harvard College tuition for those courses.</li>
Scholarships are both merit-based and need-based. Unadmitted students who are member of Phi Theta Kappa and have an associate degree can apply for a PTK scholarship that will cover the cost of the 3 prereq courses and, upon admission, will very likely to get a scholarship of up to 50% tuition. Admitted students can also apply for PTK scholarship or HES scholarship which cover up to 50% tuition as well. Also for students with Special Students status (has a GPA of A- or higher and was allowed to take courses in Harvard College) can apply for Special Student Scholarship which will give them 1 free course in Harvard College per semester. If you are low-income then Federal Pell Grant and PTK scholarship/HES scholarship will probably cover the whole tuition fee. HES is affordable.
<li>CGS: Tuition is around $1,400 per credit ($24,000 per term if taken 17 credits or more)</li>
Scholarships are limited and are both merit-based and need-based. CGS says that students can receive from $500 to $18,000 per year however typically between $6,000 - $8,000 during the first year. If you decide to go to CGS, expect to plan your finance well. The cost of living in NYC and the high tuition fee will be an issue for low-income students. CGS is expensive.
<li>LPS: tuition is around $2,800 per C.U (3 credits) or $12,000 per term (4 C.Us.) Living costs and allowances will only be included in your budget if you enroll full time (4 C.Us and up) so if you enroll part-time, living costs will not be factored in when calculating your financial aid package.</li>
Scholarships are merit-based for part-time students. Many scholarships of this kind available including one dedicated for Phi Theta Kappa members. All part-time scholarships typically provide free-tuition for 2 C.Us per term (including summer.) Financial Aid for full-time students are need-based and will always have a portion of student loan. Typically those financial aid packages will also include Pell Grant, Penn Grant, Work-study and Loans. Grants will count for approximately 60% - 80% of the COA while Loans and Work-study make up the remaining. A great thing about LPS is that, unlike HES, you will be able to take your major-courses in daytime at the College of Arts and Sciences at discounted LPS rates! (only major-courses) And also there is no special admission to take daytime classes. You can also take any class you want at daytime providing that you are willing to pay the normal Penn rates.
<li>RUE: tuition and financial aid are the same with traditional Brown program (need-based only.) Brown will meet full-need for admitted students and around 60% of those students will have a no-loan package. However RUE students reportedly have loans in their financial aid.</li>
<li>YEW: tuition is $4,500 per course. Students taking full-time courseload (8 courses per year) will be charged approximately $35,000 in tuition fee.</li>
Starting from 2008, average financial aid package is $28,500. So, if you are low-income, you should typically expect 80% of tuition to be covered. There are reported cases of really low-income students have full tuition covered but do expect to pay for the remaining 20% and living expenses by yourself.
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Academics & Degree & Living
- HES: HES degree-candidates are always mistaken for “community college students” because of the open-enrollment policy meaning that they will have to take classes with many unqualified students who only go to HES for boasting about “going to Harvard.” Many of HES courses are taught by Harvard professors but also many are taught by adjuncts and TAs. Overall the quality of education at HES is not high and, unless a student obtain Special Student Status to take classes at Harvard College, he will not have a Harvard experience. The degrees from HES says Bachelor of Liberal Arts in Extension Studies. It is from Harvard University but certainly a recruiter will be able to spot the obvious differences. There is also no on-campus living option for HES students. HES students are academically segregated from Harvard College students however, upon graduation, they will be full-alumni of Harvard University. I would say that HES is a very affordable option with many valuable perks for ones who have limited financial ability but want to have a taste at the Ivy League for practical purposes.
***fun myth: ([Harvard</a> Extension School Alumni Bulletin: Fall 2006](<a href=“http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/alum/2006/leitner.html]Harvard”>http://www.dce.harvard.edu/pubs/alum/2006/leitner.html)) if you read this article then you might conclude that Bill Gates might have dropped out of Harvard because he (a Harvard College student) took night-classes at Harvard Extension School and got bored :))
<li>CGS: CGS are academically equivalent to Columbia College in terms of courses offered and quality of instruction. They have living options and everything and are fully integrated to Columbia University. CGS provides the best student experience. The drawback is that CGS degree is in English (Columbia College in Latin) but, as long as you have an experience recruiter, he will be able to properly judge the quality of your education.</li>
<li>LPS: LPS are somewhere between CGS and HES. Although many LPS courses are night-courses taught by adjuncts, as an LPS student, you will have to take your major-courses at Penn in daytime. However, being admission-based, LPS night courses are not anywhere as bad as HES. The overall quality of education at LPS is fairly high and students will very likely to have a Penn academic experience. However LPS students are not eligible to play varsity sports and participate certain events/clubs and can only live on-campus at the graduate building (even though they are undergrads.) A degree from LPS is identical to a degree from Penn CAS. The only difference is that, on transcript, it says “Division: LPS”</li>
<li>RUE: It is actually Brown. Everything the same with trad student experience. RUE students can choose to live on campus or not.</li>
<li>YEW: Everything the same with trad student at Yale except YEW students do not have on-campus housing option. However YEW students are affiliated with a Residential House for advising purposes and can participate in activities at the residential house.</li>
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Conclusions: (subjective)
<li>HES: Most affordable option with good practical perks. It will be the best option for two types of people:
<li>the ones who are not Harvard material but have adequately good academic ability and just want the world to know that they “went to Harvard.”</li>
<li>the ones who are already successful and want an affordable option to explore a Harvard education.</li>
</li>
<li>CGS: Most expensive option. The best option for Ivy-League-caliber students with money who want to go back to school as a real student and experience the things they missed.</li>
<li>LPS: Affordable option. The best option for Ivy-League-caliber students with limited financial who want to go back to school while maintaining their professional life. LPS students typically don’t want a real student experience and just care about obtaining the education they need.</li>
<li>RUE: It depends on your income, RUE can be either free or will cost you a lot. It is the best option for adult students who are truly bright. You will have to have great academic ability and some professional achievement under your belt (it’s generally harder to get into RUE than normal Brown.) However you focus on going back to school as a real student.</li>
<li>YEW: Also depends on your income however will generally be some what expensive. It is the best option for adult bright students who have great professional achievements. YEW students are actually encouraged to enroll part-time so YEW is all about focusing on your career while obtaining a Yale education during the process (opposite to RUE.)</li>
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Bottom line about non-trad programs: while many people are skeptical about the quality of non-trad programs with their (arguably) lower admission standards, please bear in mind that the significance of non-trad program is the ability to follow the rigorous coursework and graduate. It might be slightly easier to get admitted to a non-trad program however it takes a lot of effort (and intellectuality) to complete the program under the same requirements as traditional students. Non-trad programs are literally a “prove yourself” approach and the quality of students in such programs are generally on par with traditional programs UPON GRADUATION.
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Please let me know if you guys have any other inputs. I might be wrong about a few things. Feel free to correct. Thanks! Good luck to all non-trad students out there!!!
