I go to a pretty competitive feeder-ish private high school in New Jersey. I want to apply ED to the Jerome Fisher program in M&T or ED to Wharton, but I’m really worried about how Penn will compare me to my classmates.
Background:
- Our school doesn't rank, so there won't be any numerical order, but if multiple applicants apply to Penn from the school I'd assume they'd compare GPAs.
- There are least 3 applicants from my school applying ED to a dual degree program at Penn. 2 are applying to Jerome Fish, and one is applying to Huntsman. They all have legacy. Two of them have double legacy at UPenn, and the other has legacy + an uncle who is a chaired professor at the university.
- My GPA is possibly in-between or the lowest out of the bunch.
- I'm taking the maximum offering of AP courses available at our school, which is more than my classmates (basically 5 APs vs 4 or 3 APs), and I'd say I have the best ECs of the bunch. Test scores are very similar for all of us (around 2300ish SATs).
Now, I know just as much as anyone just how competitive these dual degree programs are. J. Fish will not accept more than one person from my school, if they accept anyone at all. My friends are very competitive applicants in their own right, but I feel I’m a somewhat more competitive applicant if you took away their legacy status.
Does it still make sense for me to apply early decision to UPenn (presuming my main and only goal is to get into Jerome Fisher specifically) given my competition? Another school I’m really interested in applying early to is Stanford. Would it make more sense to apply EA to Stanford instead, if no one else from my school is applying?
Edit: While the environments are different, I can see myself being completely happy at either institution. At this point, I basically want to know which option would give me a higher chance of acceptance, ceterus paribus.
I don’t think EAing to stanford is a good idea, I heard RD is actually better for stanford. But then again, I also think your competitive classmates will hurt you for Wharton. You said your school is feeder-ish, how many do they typically accept?
It varies from year to year, I think one year we got 6 in to Penn, don’t think any of them were Wharton though. But that also includes one or two recruited athletes. Last year we had the valedictorian in at Wharton. That’s about it.
So RD is actually better? Why would that be the case? Is it because Stanford intentionally accepts fewer applicants early or something?
Current Wharton student here.
You’re going to need to tell us a bit more about the other applicants… it’s not just legacy that matters, although that does have a significant impact on admissions here. What do you mean when you say your EC’s are better? Is one of them a more competitive applicant than the other? Give us a bit more information about yourself and the two other applicants if you want more accurate advice.
In general though… Penn is VERY legacy heavy ED. I think it would be a waste to compete against them in ED for fisher, probably Wharton too. UPenn’s ED legacy stats are insane (almost a 50% acceptance rate across all schools… and that’s just single legacy… it’s even higher with double). If you want the even playing field, just go for RD. Use your early application elsewhere.
I’ll loop back around when you post more information to see if that changes anything, but barring extreme circumstances I’d stay away from that route.
Similarly to phillyivy583, I am also a student at Wharton. To me, it sounds as if your chances of getting into the Jerome Fisher program are quite slim, but certainly not impossible. It sounds like that you are a very bright and intelligent young man, but I believe that you are at a disadvantage as your classmates have a major advantage over you, that of being a legacy. The University of Pennsylvania even states on their website, “Children and grandchildren of alumni will receive the most consideration for their affiliation with the University during early decision.” I totally agree with phillyivy583, I think that regular decision will be a better fit for you, as getting accepted during early decision may be extremely difficult. Best of luck in your college endeavors!
@phillyivy583 The main ECs the legacy students are engineering and debate, both of which I do. However I also have a significant larger amount of Business ECs, like state position in FBLA, etc. I also have worked in corporations as a technical developer and as a business analyst.
If you have the same EC and then more, that’s great! Do you think the others are competitive? What is your GPA? What are their stats? Are you in competition with one or all three?
@phillyivy583
I think I’m in competition with all 3. One of them is just applying to huntsman though, and I’m not sure if that would qualify as competition.
I definitely think they’re competitive.
Friend 1: (dub legacy)
ACT: 36 (He gets extra time on tests because of something he has filed in his application).
750+ on subject tests
4 AP courses, excluding Latin
Friend 2: (Dub legacy)
ACT: 34
750+ on subject tests
4 AP courses excluding spanish
Friend 3: (Huntsman applicant) (Single legacy + chaired professor)
ACT: 34
750+ on subject tests
3 AP courses, excluding Calculus and Physics
Me:
SAT: 2310
750+ on subject tests
5 AP courses
GPA wise, it’s probably
Friend 3>Friend 2>Friend 1>Me
OR
Friend 3>Me>Friend 2>Friend 1
ECs wise:
Me>all (I’m also not the best judge of this though, espec. cause this is kind of subjective. I’m not sure if I’d be biased or not).
Hey!
I am ac current Stanford undergrad student who is double majoring in Computer Science and quantitative finance, so its similar to fisher. Quite frankly, I don’t think you have a shot at either Wharton or Stanford early. Try a state school early first and then go for reaches.
Sorry, I had more to my other post but it wasn’t going through.
My rationale for my previous statement is that grades are the most important thing at these schools. If you don’t have the best grades among them, your application is thrown out without a second thought. They might glance at your essays, but not really (I learned this after interning in admissions at Stanford). You seem like you have a decent amount of ECs with some ok depth, but thats not enough for top 20 schools. Definitely make sure you are safe in the admissions process for college and apply to a safety first.
@StanfordSon I think you being a little too hard on @verno1212 He seems like he is a good applicant for these schools, but I think he is just in a position where his classmates also are very competitive applicants as well. Ultimately, @verno1212 has a shot of making these schools, but it is going to be quite challenging.
@ivyguy28 and @verno1212
I have had actual experience in admissions at Stanford and I know how competitive admissions really is. This student is as unhooked as one can get and he doesn’t have ECs that can compensate for that. You either need a hook to get into these schools or some very impressive accomplishments, and his friends at least have the hooks and better grades.
@verno1212
Just so you know, if you write a very, very good essay, then you have a shot. The students who get in unhooked usually have such compellling essays that its hard to not admit them. Focus on your essays as its your best shot at this point.
@StanfordSon
Is that true even neglecting AP course rigor? All in all, I took 5 AP classes and 7 AP exams. I’m taking AP Physics, which is widely regarded as the most difficult course in the school because of our teacher’s repute. It also specifically says on the document we send to colleges that it is the most difficult class for juniors.
The friend who has the highest GPA is taking 3 APs, which are all humanities. The only reason his GPA is so high is because Physics is a GPA bomb, and he chose not to take that or calculus.
Do you think grades wise, this is still true without context? i.e. My school doesn’t rank, so if I was the only one applying to Stanford, would this play such a large role? My grades look good OUT of context, I think. (like As and stuff.)
Schools send a report with average grades for each class to each college whenever a student applies. So the college can still tell how the grades look in context. And Stanford wants students who not only take the AP classes but get As or A+s in them.
What is your GPA Verno? That is most important
After further reflection, I think that even with amazing essays your state school would be a reach.
(I consulted with stanford’s head AO)
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I find it hard to believe that even OP’s state school would be a “reach” with their stats, EC’s and “amazing essays”. I also know Stanford AO’s and I don’t know any that would say something like that to me without at least having the file in front of them first.
That being said, I think OP is focusing too much on how they compare with the other applicants from their school and not enough versus the general pool of applicants which is extraordinarily competitive. There is nothing special about the number of AP’s OP took or their grades and EC’s for the M&T program so I would agree that the other three hooked candidates all stand a better chance in the early round. I also agree with the strategy to apply early elsewhere and give M&T a shot in the RD round. Whatever you choose to do, however, good luck!!!