<p>To all those ranting about India’s poor and Indians only care about money :</p>
<p>Are you saying that you don’t care about money. Or that US or any other academic institutions do not care about money. For your information the international students are not eligible for aid. More than 90% of the international students are the full pay categories. So please get off your high horse and stop making statements just for the heck of being part of a discussion. I would understand your being judgemental if you were paying for my child’s education. On the other hand it is these Internationals who would to some extent be taking care of some of those scholarships and aid that the local kids benefit from. We are the “cash cows”. </p>
<p>So please start the thread on India’s underprivileged and you will have loads of educated
discussion on that too. But not here Dear this is something else.</p>
<p>This thread I think went a little off track. One thing I noticed is basically how admissions at various Indian institutions is driven by one factor - a test, which she missed the mark barely. So all the other factors where the student excelled, including her grades, were non-factors. US schools are more holistic in their admissions, particularly top privates. I’m sure she had a very high SAT score and great grades. She wouldn’t have gotten into Dartmouth, Duke, and Cornell otherwise.</p>
<p>So THIS is what my mother meant when she said I was a failure! No wonder I look pathetic in her eyes if so many Indians are so freaking smart! Now I look even more pathetic when I mark ‘Indian’ in the stupid ethnicity box!</p>
<p>Personally I have conflicting emotions about this whole thing.</p>
<p>I feel envious and rather discouraged when I realize I have no chance in heck based on my ethnicity and GPA. I’m just ‘somewhat smart’. Compared to those Indian geniuses, I’m a complete nitwit. I also feel irritated that people from a country that places higher importance on grades are able to get in to our top colleges so easily, and take up spots that we could have filled. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I feel rather guilty. The students who got in obviously worked hard and deserve it. They’ll also have their own hardships of stereotyping and the whole ‘culture shock’ thing. I also feel guilty for being rather racist…
Their admittance to top universities may make me look bad both socially and academically, but that’s my own fault. Besides, it’s kinda fun to shatter stereotypes! The stupefied look on the unenlightened racist/sexist pig is quite satisfying to see.</p>
<p>I really need to kick it up a notch. Here I am with D’s in my senior year because of senioritis, whereas my sis who is less than a year older than me had a perfect UW GPA, weighted GPA of 5.4, valedictorian, 2320 SAT, president of nearly every club…accepted to Duke, Brown, and others…</p>
<p>Well I have no problem seeing the point of the thread. As many others have already written, cut-off rates in eminent Indian universities are very high, and those with entrance exams have the toughest one (relative to an average person). And as many would agree most ‘good’ education (again, relative to an average person) is confined to the top unis, unlike U.S. where I guess is a uniformity. Plus - the second factor - that the Indian unis have usually less diversity of students in terms of their experiences or thoughts (that is, more like-minded students) so consequentially some subjects are considered the tops, while others are disparaged (for e.g. research fields like Cosmology or Stellar physics are absent in IITs, or at least not paid attention to). What is it in the U.S., we all know.</p>
<p>So naturally any person failing to get admission into the top unis, OR, who craves more diversity of subjects and people, will flock to the U.S. (or any other foreign country depending on various factors).</p>
<p>The real lesson from this is that American students need to kick it up a notch. When Indian and Chinese 18 year olds, hard-working, excellent test-takers, and with money in their pockets start applying to top US schools in equal numbers to the native US talent, they WILL be accepted in higher numbers. If these institutions want “the best” and need the cash, I wager that traditional LACs will rely more and more on brilliant “foreigners”.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s a bad thing for anyone. Hard work needs to be valued, and rewarded.</p>
<p>If Harvard, Stanford et al are accepting gifts in the millions from foreign entities, AND reserving 10-20% of their admissions for foreign students; how much longer will the American taxpayer agree to the tax-free status of these institutions? Harvard has its own endowment fund managers who invest its billions in the in the open market place, e.g. This girl’s family paid only a portion of her costs. The remainder was covered by the college who has this spare cash precisely because of its not-for-profit status…</p>
<p>Not trying to instigate the controversial education debate again but someone posted a video eulogizing IITs (I don’t guess it was a parody) so I must try to highlight the other side of the coin too. And this is one of the best articles I stumbled upon.</p>
<p>@EminemFan - I was going to post something to the effect of “that IIT video is hogwash,” but you have basically spoken whatever I had to with that article.</p>
<p>"…If Harvard, Stanford et al are accepting gifts in the millions from foreign entities, AND reserving 10-20% of their admissions for foreign students…"
Currently the international figures are around 10%…(berkeley is at 20% I believe)…if they increase it further, which I hope they do not, certainly that would be concerning to me. I think the Indian universities have foreign quota too. </p>
<p>What would be ideal is if these Indian industry giants start improving the local universities and invest there but that would be another India topic. Honestly when I heard Tata giving $50M to Harvard, I am like, yeah Harvard really needed the money !</p>
<p>Educational institutions in India haven’t increased at the rate of young population growth which is disheartening.</p>
<p>A little late, but I felt like clarifying this.</p>
<p>@brutallyhonest</p>
<p>I did not in any way contradict myself. By preference, I meant a preference in business schools, not graduate schools in general. It would be ridiculous to talk about a particular school only admitting x number/percent of international students. I was pointing out that it varies significantly by department/program. It seems that a business degree is indeed more desirable to international students looking to study in the US than a psychology degree. That makes it far more competitive for those US students who are trying for the same degrees. </p>
<p>If there are a similar number of qualified internationals (it doesn’t matter where they are from), schools may prefer those who will pay over fully-funding American students. I have heard business professors talk about this. I am not talking about top-tiered schools, either, since I did not attend a top-tier nor was I looking at top-tier business programs. So my comments are for those schools not in the top 25 for business or psychology.</p>
<p>Even if it is the case where far more international students are applying to such programs than American students, it still makes it far more difficult for American students to stand out and be admitted. Especially if they require full-funding. That was my point. Nothing more.</p>
<p>I’m sorry to hear the state of higher education is so bad. =/ I have a few friends in India, but they’re all planning on studying in the US, so I hadn’t heard about this situation.</p>
<p>You know what though, I would welcome any and all Indian students that are able to do so to come to American schools. Yes, it’s going to make the top American schools even more hyper-competitive than they already are, but in the long run, it will make the whole system better (the least of which would be that maybe more Americans will be encouraged to learn Hindi/Arabic and that bilingual (correct me if I’m wrong, but most “educated” Indians know English, right?) Indian students would be great study mates for that), not to mention strengthen our ties with the country that will likely become the most important strategic partner to the US in the coming century. If only Brazil would start exporting more students here…</p>
<p>This thread’s post were getting pretty off-track from the topic!
Indians getting admitted to top US univ is just because of their high SAT scores, period. And besides getting great SAT scores isnt cakewalk for Indians either! And as for the American Students getting concerned about Indians taking away their chances of getting into a “top” univ is lame bcoz approx 10% of the seats are reserved for the INTERNATIONALS and rest 90% is reserved for the americans, so theres no thing anyone SNATCHING away others chances of getting in a good univ! Just wanted to add this!</p>
<p>The problem in India is the selection system is absolutely unholistic. In fact, pretty much everything is based off of that one final exam grade. So there is effectively a cutoff grade under which no one will be admitted to top med, business, engineering programs. </p>
<p>It’s a shame.</p>
<p>Personally I’m a bit awestruck that DU would be higher on her list than Dartmouth, but living in India chances are her family considers HYPSM, Michigan, and Berkley to be the only “prestigious” institutions in the US and they probably think that DU is more prestigious than Dartmouth – which in India it is.</p>
<p>I personally know the girl talked about in the article; the main reason she preferred DU was because it was cheaper to go there. Financial aid played a big role. Also, nobody really relishes the idea of leaving home so early…
Just wanted to reply to a few posts:
Really? I disagree. I feel that I would have gained as good an education back in India as I am here. In terms of material (actual studying) done, I would have been just as well/better off. However, US unis score in terms of peer group and other opportunities such as internships. These are also, only of course, limited to top schools here.
This is not very different from Harvard’s (or any other top college’s) publicizing strategies to get more students to apply. Top colleges use different strategies to get current students to promote their school like offering to pay for their (only domestic students) thanksgiving tickets back home if those students agreed to promote their college at their old school. I am sure most top schools follow similar strategies. Therefore, acceptance rate of US colleges is also lower than what it would be if they didn’t encourage applicants who didn’t stand a chance to apply as well.</p>
<p>
Hmm…what makes you think PhDs here are more “respected”. Job opportunities here are more or less the same for PhDs here as they are in India…
Hmm, of course, I (or my classmates) must be so much better off being taught by TFs or TAs (teacher assistants, i.e., just grad level students) …some of whom don’t even know english properly…
Just saying, the problems faced by students all over the world are pretty similar.</p>
<p>
He said it…
I just want to say, don’t come here assuming that teaching quality will be top class everywhere here,and that this is some sort of haven for students. The colleges here are just like other colleges, they have their ups and downs.
You know, while I agree that just basing your admission on one test is not a great way of determining admissions, I also don’t really think adding ECs and essays and the SAT to the mix makes the process very much better. SAT is a silly exam. Essays-- depends whether the adcom likes it. extremely subjective. ECs-- well, I just feel that the mad rush to have a certain number of ECs mostly to put on your college app which is why most students here have ECs nowadays really nullifies the whole point of having recreational activities. More than fun, most ECs become a chore. </p>
<p>The comment regarding English majors in the article: believe me, while much might be said about “liberal arts” education, in the end, you go literally nowhere with just an english degree unless you go and supplement it with a grad school degree. </p>
<p>The lines regarding 93.5 (or whatever) not being enough to get into a top college of your choice in India (hawww! ): Just as an example, the median here in my math class is a 92. Meaning half the class got a 92+ here. If the test is easy, you score. Indian exams could very well be tougher (like they were a decade or so ago) and have a lower average, just so that the world doesn’t frown upon them for having such a high cut off. We all didn’t get smarter than our peers from 10 yrs ago. The tests just got easier. So obviously the cut offs will be higher. It doesn’t mean anything.</p>
<p>@perfectpixie - great post.
Having studied both sides of the fence, I couldn’t agree more.
I think it is upto everyone to make the best of whatever opportunities they get. If someone gets a great scholarship and/or afford it here, go for it. Else India will and continue to graduate very capable and successful people Also something that is ironic and happens to all of us one time or other - you got to get out to appreciate what you left behind.
And I had to smile at your 93.5.</p>
): Just as an example, the median here in my math class is a 92. Meaning half the class got a 92+ here. If the test is easy, you score. Indian exams could very well be tougher (like they were a decade or so ago) and have a lower average, just so that the world doesn’t frown upon them for having such a high cut off. We all didn’t get smarter than our peers from 10 yrs ago. The tests just got easier. So obviously the cut offs will be higher. It doesn’t mean anything.</p>
Also something that is ironic and happens to all of us one time or other - you got to get out to appreciate what you left behind.