<p>I couldn’t agree more with pixie. Especially about blackadder’s point about unis here being generally just better than unis back home. Ok, guys, that’s just not true. So don’t come here thinking it is. If somebody has decided on their field of study by the time they graduate from high school(which I wasn’t able to do), the Indian undergraduate system is respected the world over and is a great option, not to mention great value for money. The US system was personally a better fit for me because a) I hadn’t decided my major, b) I just like taking inconsequential classes, inconsequential in the sense that they will ultimately not count towards my major or chosen career, but they do challenge me and teach me a lot in general. </p>
<p>So yes, studying here may be more diversified, with more scope for hands-on experience before graduating, etc. but it is by no means going to teach you more.</p>
<p>Frankly, I think people have forgotten the brand factor. A Stanford or UC Berkeley is much better recognized throughout the world than a IIT. Of that I am pretty sure. I myself am in FIITJEE.</p>
<p>@Tiyas, so you are saying that ‘more hands-on experience’ doesn’t teach someone more. I disagree.
And the ability to take classes that suit your interest without caring about their relation to my future job is a huge plus for me. I have been limited enough by the ‘medical’ ‘non medical’ ‘commerce’ stream system in the last 2 years to realize that I have no love for the Indian system.</p>
<p>“And the ability to take classes that suit your interest without caring about their relation to my future job is a huge plus for me.”
That is all well and good if you have financial aid. Most of us here don’t. So that means investing $3000+ for that course. Also this creates what is called “drifters” in college. People who have no direction and take 6+ years to graduate…since they were “undeclared” and kept looking for the perfect fit.</p>
<p>Yes, S and UCB may have better names but what I hear from people who work at fortune 100 companies - where you get your degree doesn’t matter a lot, except for entry level maybe. S and UCB are great for research and PhD types. Else if you are just looking for a job, your personal aptitude is what will matter and your experience. I know some state level undergraduates who work at the big tech companies and I know some with a UCB degree who is a high school teacher. Plans change all the time and where you get your degree doesnt seem to matter a whole lot.</p>
<p>@tryingforcollege: You bring up a valid point. I am not going to the US if I don’t get aid. 50k $+ every year for four years equals 200k $+. If I had that kind of money, I’d rather start investing in real estate here and be rich soon. About ‘drifters’, I am not saying that I don’t want to declare a major. I have pretty much decided it, on the contrary. I just want to take classes in film studies or dance because they interest me. I can’t do that here.</p>
Each major will have a specific set of requirements that you will have to complete whether you like it or not. These are courses that eat up slots that could have been used for classes that “suit your interest without caring about their relation to… [your]… future job”. Even here you shall be forced to complete a given set of requirements. If you are an engineering major, it is even worse for you, because the number of course requirements is such, that you only get a couple or so of class slots that you can use for “just like that classes”.
If you want absolute complete freedom, your options are schools like Sarah Lawrence but top schools will still have requirements that you need to complete. On top of that, while it is said that you can “explore” in the first year, you still need to take classes that are intro courses to your major in the first sem, else you’ll be behind on your course requirements, and therefore behind the rest of the class relatively. At the same time, if your school follows a core, which most schools do, you also have core requirements to get out of the way.
Just putting it out there, so that you guys know.</p>
<p>Employers do not care where you get your degree, except that you have the capability of fitting their environment. You get the grades, you’re good to go. However, in this economy, having an international education background can bolster walls on your path, but as long as you keep focus of what you want in life, you cannot be denied. There are graduate route paths and company sponsorships that can be granted. You can even end up going to another country with comparable per capita and benefits. Nothing can be said about the future.
I agree that the US university is great in that you can declare multiple majors that don’t necessarily lie on the same path (ex: comp sci & math double major). You can pursue the liberal arts and do engineering at the same time. Additionally, you can even apply to a completely different grad school without having so much as majored in the specific line per se. In essence, you can complete minimal requirements (perhaps even gain a minor) of the graduate school and be rest assured that your paths can change if you decide to moor your journey in a completely unique goal. This is exactly why many internationals pursue a degree in the u.s. The system is unlike any other, and all the rest of the world complies with the european standard, which focuses on only one area. @Pixie is correct in that each major has core requirements. However, some core requirements (electives) are open to interpretation in that you are the person deciding on what classes to fill those electives with. These ‘electives’ are created to fulfill a “general education” requirements for most schools. The practice is quite common in liberal arts schools and they promote a well rounded individual. Honestly, you can end up taking electives only of the subject you are majoring in…but then you limit yourself to only that one subject. If you’ve been told that you are good in drama, pursue electives that are drama related. If you have never heard of a phenomenon as the chaos theory, jump for it and absorb like a sponge. It is never too late in one’s college career here to learn new things. These electives are a hidden gem that force you to use up their wealth. Use the wealth wisely.
On a total opposite,some grad schools may be extremely tough to get in given your international status. Even if you’ve had an education in a us based university, your status will hurt you nevertheless. Additionally, don’t expect that your 200k investment (if you don’t get scholarship) will return quickly based on the mere salary numbers you gather from miscellaneous sites on a preferred starting job after graduation. You have to climb many rungs of the ladder to ensure the repayment of your input. Keep this for the conscious mind and for your parents.
Both ways you look at it, there are cons and pros. I don’t know much about the indian system but I can tell you that the tuition money is rising in many public schools and even privates too. This increase is a response of the depressed economy worldwide. In state tuition students are exceptionally worried…but the OOS tuition increase (and yea that includes the internationals) have a steeper increase in tuition prices. Perhaps keep this in mind as well when you look into estimating your expenses. Four years from now, the cumulative price tag could be heavier than imagined.
Take economics, you’ll learn a significant bunch from what’s happening in the world. Don’t take decisions based off of reputation and caliber…but rather from one’s pocket size and circumstances.
P.S. I tend to have long replies…I guess I like to write ;)</p>
<p>@anirudh - definitely, a CS major has great job prospects. But I think the underlying thing is - where you get your CS major may not weigh that much after the senior year. It is your individual experience and aptitude that counts.</p>
<p>Just as an example, we had this person from a community college here - and he turned out to be a computer whiz that we ended up turning his internship into a full time job. It is just not everyone can get to a harvard or CMU or stanford but beyond where they get their degree, we see actual aptitude/experience.</p>
<p>@aniruddh Thank you for sharing that most helpful information about CMU CS grads. It must have been a very proud moment for you when you got that admission to CS department at CMU. The humility with which you have been sharing your profound knowledge about college admissions has been exemplary. An unrelated question for you - how hard is it to get admission at University of Michigan or UC Berkeley relative to CMU for Engineering (not CS) if you are willing to pay full tuition? Did you apply to those universities? Thanks!</p>
<p>[Computer</a> Science Job Market Outlook | Computer and Information Sciences](<a href=“http://www.cis.udel.edu/jobs/market/]Computer”>http://www.cis.udel.edu/jobs/market/)
The website above shares that the market for CS is increasing through the past ten years. It also displays that there is a strong demand for CS majors (smart ones at that). I agree with fall2016parent in that undergrad really doesn’t matter. Now, if you are exceptionally bright and your talent is discovered, you can get a job easily. This is CS major we are talking about…not medicine or law where they actually want YOU to go through US standards. Computer science is a universal language and quiet honestly, I see more international grads at my uni than domestic students. Ergo…you needn’t worry about doing your undergrad here and end up paying costly tuition and boarding fees.</p>
<p>There are a bunch of Computational Biology masters students here from top universities in India (SRM, IIT-D, IIT-M) doing my intro to programming course and they find it extremely hard / they all have low/high B’s on the course. Its not about the jobs etc., its about the education you’re receiving and if you can survive a place like CMU then every other place is pretty easy for you. The employers know that and the statistics prove the same too.</p>
<p>And I’ve already gotten interviews from a bunch of super-good companies for a summer internship as a freshman and I’m barely average here.</p>
<p>No one is denying CMU CS will give you an edge in your first job/internship. But what we are saying in real life, after 1-2 years experience, noone really looks at your college. In fact, the college name is way down in the resume as per standards now…Yes, definitely programming intro courses are tough, doesn’t matter if they are IIT grad but if that is the first time they are programming, it is tough. Working in the CS industry for 10+ years, we have had some of our best IT guys from local state colleges and “unranked” universities…and some of them have gone on to become directors, managers, started companies etc…etc.</p>
<p>Yes, being in a good college will get you the internships faster - no doubt about that. Heck, we have a person here in our IT who started out as a Bio major and then took some programming classes as she didn’t want to be a Bio lab person anymore…Anyway, you get the gist.</p>
<p>My last 2 cents - just do the best you can wherever you are and employers and opportunities will find you.</p>
<p>As distinguished as CMU’s CS program might be I dont think its fair to declare a chasm in quality of education based on your perception of the level of skill a bunch of computational biology majors have. Programming especially is a skill that (like mathematics) derives a great deal from innate skill. While it can be learnt and practiced, there is a great talent element that I think the people you refer to lack(like me). I highly doubt that the level of teaching in American colleges is superior to that in India. In fact, considering the lack of emphasis on research in India it might even be better in India than here. The difference perhaps might lie in the equipment and facilities that might enhance the educative experience. Other than that, how much you learn is up to you.</p>
Last time I saw, most of the CS profs in india read out of a book and barely glance at the classroom. Additionally, the rooms echo far too much and outside traffic causes a huge environmental difference between India and US. While a high level language can be easily self-taught through books and programming, and one would come to conclusion that whether it be India or the US it doesn’t really matter, there is more emphasis on problem solving that makes things harder in the US. However, my CS department has some of the smartest international students ever in the subject and they have learned the concepts inside and out. They pretty much run the whole UG…given that they are grads and well grads act as TAs for most part. There are also community college students who absolutely make me wonder why the heck they aren’t pursuing CS because they GET it when it comes to programming. I don’t think it makes much difference where you go for CS, except for the fact that your uni better be in some hot spot areas where CS majors have some real net worth. Working as a graduate at a uni that is across from a computer companies pool can really play towards your advantage. Essentially, you really just have to go to the right school that’s located in the right place. Employers will know your education background more thoroughly than say some other regional uni. Of course, if you go to top unis, you needn’t need to introduce your background, so you can essentially apply to any place in the world and assume you have a good change. However, if you come out as a promising grad student, you needn’t need introduction either ;)</p>
<p>Liveulife I hardly think you’re qualified to generalize CS profs across India to be like that. If I might add many professors here arent the most proactive either. Its more similar and different.</p>
ok maybe i may not be an education expert, but as a CS minor and someone with a lot of background in the education that is being taught here, I think that the only reason why internationals end up with more knowledge is because they get taught by books that are much different and european styled that we have here. I’ve read some of these books and they are extremely detailed. Some things taught here cannot complement what these books inform of. The books I have to read try to bring the knowledge to base level and help me do complex programming without necessarilly detailing me on specifics. You really have to connect the dots to be genuine. From the few profs I’ve seen come from India who have CS background, they don’t do a good job teaching here. I can hardly understand them, and they are suppose to come from top schools in India. I’ve also visited indian college classrooms but I agree for this instance in my previous speech that I cannot base my knowledge on this one experience. The good thing is that CS, although hard at times, can be taught by one-self. You really only need profs to answer some technical logic errors that sprout up in programming…In the US, yea if you go to some mid tier college, you may find profs that may not compare to your top uni in india, but if you visit some ivies and top tier schools in programming, the profs will be unparalleled. Now if you compare intro level classes, yea you will find profs trying to numb down the course lvl, but only b/c they know that there are people who don’t know any programming.</p>
<p>As someone who has done undergrad Engg from India, (from one of the top colleges - not IIT though :)) the facilities were allright, Comp Sc was still taking off (this is 15+ years back) but the curriculum followed pretty much what is followed here. As an undergrad, you have the same kind of core/foundation classes that any reputable program will have in India.</p>
<p>Then coming here for Grad studies, the class room experience wasn’t a lot different but where it made a difference was working with professors who were using technology for projects. That is what made me and a lot of us learn the ropes, in essence it was like internship. And then yes, I agree, being in a geographic area with hi-tech companies helps because they recruit from campus (and no I wasn’t in an Ivy but decent university). i guess the gist of all this is - there are good /bad teachers everywhere. A bunch of my undergrad friends did not come to the US, but instead got recruited by the top tech companies in India (TCS, Infosys…etc) and have done very well with no graduate US education. I dont think anyone can compare US education vs India. In all cases, YOU have to stand out, take the opportunity. Obviously a CMU undergrad may get more opportunities than say someone from a local engineering college in India. But then it is everyone on their own.</p>
<p>“And the rooms echo traffic”…Well mine didn’t …we were in a huge sprawling campus. I dont think we should make generalized comments :)</p>
I think I was caught up in my visit to delhi university and what I experienced there for say some time during summer? I guess that is how it is like in urban settings…but I thought DU is supposed to be pretty good.
However, I immediately pointed out my bias because I realized that one experience cannot account for all. I was rather referring to top indian unis that are usually placed in an urban setting. The traffic pollution cannot be ignored when every second you sort of hear a car beep. Though, I am told that after a certain of days, one gets used to things like this and hardly thinks they are the least of their worries.