<p>Hey, I was wondering if this was a competitive enough senior year schedule for Brown:</p>
<p>AP Biology
AP Literature
AP Human Geography
AP Statistics
Photography
Religion</p>
<p>I’ll be taking the highest level of English available, the highest level of biology available, and I chose to take AP Human Geography because of my intended major (international relations). Apart from these classes, I’ve also taken AP US, AP Spanish, and AP English Comp & Lang. Does this sound like a pretty competitive schedule over all? Or just average? Or even below average? Thank you!</p>
<p>Edit: You can only take 5 classes a year (religion and photography are both semester courses)*</p>
<p>Thanks hollyert. That does make sense. However, since I entered my school during my junior year, there were some gaps in my learning (as well as requirements I needed to fulfill, like religion and art), so I cannot exactly take the hardest courses my current school offers (sure, I can take the hardest courses that are at the appropriate level for me with all the moving around I’ve done, and which actually fit my schedule - there are usually so many scheduling conflicts since most AP courses have only one class). But thanks for the input! I HAVE tried to take the hardest classes available to me throughout high school, so hopefully it’ll pay off.</p>
<p>When you get teachers and administrators to write your letters of recommendation, it might be smart to give them the forms and envelopes with a sticky note reminding them/summarizing to them the various points you would appreciate them mentioning.</p>
<p>One good thing to ask them to mention might be a “stepping up to the plate” when it comes to the academic offerings at a new school. </p>
<p>I really really recommend taking the most you can handle and then ensuring that this gets recognized on your applications.</p>
<p>Thanks! I’ll talk to my college counselor about that. I really am taking all the APs I can as a senior, so hopefully it gets recognized like you said.</p>
<p>The only small point might be if your school offers AP Calculus, esp BC, and you are taking AP Stats and have not taken AP Calc. (or other calculus and done well if AP not offered.) (In fact I know that Brown considers not having taken calculus in HS a significant “weak point”.)</p>
<p>My school does offer Calculus (Regular, AB, & BC) - however, a prerequisite to take BC is Honors PreCalc (and a prerequisite for that is Honors Algebra 2 - and a prereq for that is Honors Geometry, and etc etc etc). This is only my second year at my current school, and PreCalc was all I could get into. After struggling with the course, my college counselor actually recommended I take AP Stats, and she understands that Brown is my first choice (so I would assume that she knows what I’m doing won’t look bad… ).</p>
<p>Also, colleges all over the US only ask that you take until Algebra 2 (I’m already two courses above Algebra 2). Sure, it would look way better to take Calc (specially an AP Calc course), but, not only will I not need Calc for my intended major, but I actually enjoy Statistics and I plan on demonstrating that through my application (or my interview - I actually talked about how I like Stats in a previous interview and it seemed to go over well). Plus, an AP is an AP (if I were to petition to get into Calc, it would most likely be regular - and I can only imagine the scheduling conflicts that would arise. I’d most likely have to drop several of my other courses, which I do not intend to do).</p>
<p>I just know that I have heard specifically that lack of taking calculus was a significant “strike against” for at least one student I got feedback re admission status. Also IR is one of the most popular majors (and some math is helpful re econ courses etc. although not absolute to have calculus, those that do have a “math mind” seem to find econ easier). Anyway, lack of calculus might be okay (would be interesting to see how many of the current accepted/ at Brown students did not have HS Calculus if it was part of the curriculum at their school) but more likely accepted if you were a potential English/ Art / sociology or some other less represented potential concentrator. Brown wants you to have “taken the most rigorous curriculum available to you”.</p>
Not sure that’s true, especially given AP Stats’ reputation and that Brown pretty much refuses to give credit for it, but if Stats is what you want to take, that’s fine - New England Boarding school college counselors generally have a sense of what they’re doing (though they’re not infallible and I found sometimes have ulterior motives). Depending on what you want to do, you may find calculus more useful than you think, though (it’s pretty vital for anything beyond basic statistics).</p>
<p>Well, I do understand that AP only refers to potentially gaining credit in college, not exactly a specific level of difficulty. And I do understand that AP Stats does have a bad reputation, but I’m not even sure Calc could fit into my schedule now. </p>
<p>Uroogla, what do you mean by ulterior motives? Are they specifically leading me astray to ensure that I don’t get into a specific school (maybe to help another student get in?)?</p>
<p>And I’m sure there’s a chance I’ll probably end up taking Calc in college. But, for right now, I’m happy with the way my schedule turned out (while I am taking AP Stats - a joke of a class, as some might say - I am also taking several other defficult APs, namely Lit and Bio, and I’m taking them, along with Geo, because I know I’ll enjoy the classes and enjoy the material I’ll learn in them) :)</p>
<p>Although, what BrownAlumParent is saying is sorta worrying me…</p>
<p>If you have the opportunity to take Calc, which is the hardest class you could potentially do well in, and choose to take a much much “jokier” AP, you have NOT taken the hardest course load possible.</p>
<p>I think taking non-AP Calculus would be preferable to taking AP Stats, if taking AP Calc is totally out of the question. Does your school have Honors</p>
<p>Calculus is a MAJOR jump in mathematical thinking and not being familiar with it will be a substantial handicap in college, even as a freshman, in many courses.</p>
<p>EDIT: Calculus is necessary to know for the economics classes required by IR. While the Math department does the job of teaching you Calculus, I would think your high school math teacher could provide a less harried, more relaxed introduction to the material.</p>
<p>EDIT: There are lots of cool stats classes at Brown, which you will be able to take regardless of AP Stats preparation, but many of which require calculus.</p>
<p>^But, I don’t really even see how that is possible when colleges only require that you get up to Algebra 2. I am so confused now…I don’t know what to do.</p>
<p>…Brown isn’t “most colleges” and I will remind you that “most colleges” don’t set a minimum SAT score. Does that mean you can get in with a 1700? No.</p>
<p>EDIT: I realized that this wasn’t a productive comment. So:
Think about your priorities.
Some options:
(1) take the schedule you already determined you like
(2) rearrange everything for the sake of working a bit harder</p>
<p>Because you are questioning #1, I have a feeling it’s for a good reason. Something is nagging you.</p>
<p>I’m not sure why you added quotes there, since I never said “most” colleges. I do understand that Brown is a top-tier school with one of the lowest acceptance rates out there, but, with my low SAT score aside, I’m sure taking AP Stats will not be a deciding factor of whether I should be accepted into Brown or not. That’s sort of absurd.</p>
<p>EDIT:
If I do rearrange my classes, there’s a chance I might not be in AP Bio, or there’s a chance I might not be in AP Lit (both of which have crazy prerequisites - and Lit only has one class, so I’d definitely lose that).</p>
<p>If I had to guess, being at the point where one could take calc and not doing so would disadvantage an applicant in the “most rigorous schedule possible” area. Especially coming from the sort of school you do, I doubt it would disqualify you on its own - to give you a sense of my perspective, I attended a rigorous New England boarding school too - I was accepted with 2 years of history and with no chemistry, which one would think would be important in the rigor category. On the other hand, the rest of my schedule was intensive and rigorous with strong grades, including 7 years of foreign language and math through and beyond Differential Equations. Generally, adcoms seem to expect different things from New England boarding school candidates and similar schools than they do from the average high school. I know at least one person who got into Harvard from my school having stopped math without trig or ever knowing what a logarithm is, but he was also the founder and runner of a major political website.</p>
<p>I’m not sure their motives are that sinister, but ultimately, they are guiding you in a way that makes their admit numbers and the school’s numbers look best. Sometimes they discourage students from applying places they actually have a chance because they feel the chance isn’t high enough to warrant the school’s numbers absorbing a rejection. I was pressured to affirm my status on the waitlist at Princeton (presumably) because it’s a more prestigious school than Brown, even when I had “settled” on Brown. Based on the fluctuating numbers from my school, I’m disinclined to believe that adcoms do things like lead students astray to help other students, because it’s pretty clear that there are no hard caps on students accepted.</p>
<p>Do I recommend taking calc in high school? Yes. Am I biased? As a math major, certainly. Can you get in without calc? It’s been done. Will it disadvantage you? It wouldn’t surprise me, but Stats is better than no math.</p>
<p>On that point I totally agree. AP Stats is a fine class, interesting (in my opinion, way more interesting than Calculus!), etc. You taking it is only a credit to you.</p>
<p>But… consider this from Brown’s point of view. Here you sit, wee applicant, with a buffet of courses before you. Since this is rather like what you will face at Brown, Brown wants to see how you choose from these courses. They WILL be provided with a list of courses available at your school (and usually average AP scores and # of students in the class) from your school’s administration.</p>
<p>Brown looks at what you choose to take. And what it’s really looking for is self-discipline, adventurousness, and hard work. I think Calculus comes in at the Self-Discipline part, not so much the hard work (I don’t doubt that you are a serious student intent on doing extremely well). </p>
<p>Another argument for Calculus, besides how and why Brown places some emphasis on taking a Calculus class (not necessarily AP, as in your situation), is that Calculus will be extremely useful to you in at least a few of your classes at Brown. Furthermore, if you do enjoy Statistics, Calculus becomes as major competent of the subject after about 1 semester, so you would be in a great position to pursue whatever interest you have in Statistics (be it Social Statistics, Demography, Econometrics, etc.) with an understanding of Calculus.</p>
<p>The most important thing is whether your guidance counselor will check off the “most rigorous curriculum taken” box. So you need to ask your GC if your senior year schedule meets that description, and whether that box will be checked.</p>
<p>I have heard the same info as BrownAlumParent about calculus. Here’s the thing – when Brown accepts just 8 out of 100 applicants, it can be very very picky. Are there students accepted who haven’t taken calculus? Absolutely. Are they recruited athletes or have celebrity/wealthy parents or written a best-selling novel – perhaps. Are they students who go to very rural or innercity schools where calculus is not offered – probably. </p>
<p>If your school offers calculus and you don’t take it --even if you plan to major in something like visual arts or Greek literature where calculus is not important – that is an obstacle to your admission. Have students been denied admission based on a decision like this? Actually, yes they have (I know of a valedictorian who didn’t get into Brown mainly because her senior year schedule was not competitive – no calculus or physics in her case.) OTOH, there are probably students accepted every year who took AP stats instead of calculus. This is not a statistic Brown provides.</p>
<p>Now, should you rearrange your life to take calculus, ONLY because you want to go to Brown? Well, obviously that’s a decision you (and other applicants) have to make. To be very honest – I wouldn’t do it. Just taking calculus doesn’t guarantee admission – thousands of kids who have taken calculus still don’t get into Brown. If you are not ready for calculus, if your senior year would be ruined by taking calculus, if your GPA and rank would drop if you took calculus – then I don’t see why you should take it on the 8% chance of getting into one school. </p>
<p>(PS – I much prefer the good-old days of Brown admissions, when acceptance rates were in the 20% range and students who didn’t take calculus were accepted.)</p>
<p>Thanks Uroogla, that did sort of make me feel better.</p>
<p>I have completed all the other requirements well beyond what they expected (over 4 years of history, three languages, etc). I feel like the only field that is pulling me back is Math, and even then I’ve met the requirements. I will talk to my college counselor once again in the fall to see what he thinks is best. Just a question though, would doubling in science help make my senior year schedule look any better?</p>
<p>Also, since the issue of economics being an IR requirement, and how Calc is usually needed in the class, was brought up, would it help at all if I’ve already taken an Economics course in high school (not AP, since my previous school did not offer it)? I can imagine since, as an IR major, the only math-related courses I would need to take is Econ (and probably a Calc course to do well in Econ). But wouldn’t it help admissions-wise that I’ve taken an Econ course in high school?</p>
<p>And thanks fireandrain, that actually also made me feel much more better about my senior year schedule. I’ve actually heard that myth before (the “most competitive schedule offered” box) and I plan on asking my college counselor all about it once I get back to school. My guess is that she would check it; not many students take 4 APs senior year (even if Stats is one), most only take 2, with a total of 4 or 5 by the time they graduate. I’ll have a whopping 7, which should help. Also, I’ve been quite persistent with my schedule for next year (counselor didn’t think I was qualified for AP Bio), but, I got in, so hopefully that shows her that I have a drive to learn and that I took the initiative needed to land a tough schedule, and hopefully she can reflect this through her recommendation.</p>
<p>If it wasn’t AP Econ in high school, it’s likely that the course bears little resemblance to lower-level Econ courses (but it won’t hurt you either) in college. The courses required for IR - Political Economy are quite theoretical and rely heavily on calculus (oh joy!), while upper-level classes that assume you know the theoretical groundwork are actually very similar to high school classes where you learn about the economy as a whole, from an applied perspective.</p>
<p>If you are intending on taking another IR track, your college Econ class will be ample preparation for the easy-as-pie required Econ class (which does not require Calculus but can be aided by a knowledge of Calculus). Most people go into Principles of Econ with not a whit of Economics knowledge but at least 1 college semseter (or 1 high school year) of Calculus, though it technically isn’t a prerequisite.</p>
<p>I think Econ classes outside of the requirements would often serve as interesting supplements to the IR curriculum, especially in the less-quantitative tracks.</p>
).</p>
I am so confused now…I don’t know what to do.</p>