<p>i know you pretty much cannot get into hyp without it. but what about brown?</p>
<p>i’m not sure if i’ll be able to enroll in a pre-cal class next term. i took honors geometry and honors alg ii, but nothing besides that. i’m taking stats next term for sure, but i dunno if i’ll be able to get into the pre-cal class.</p>
<p>but can someone get into brown without taking it? </p>
<p>and if you have to take it, is it fine to take it at a cc? cuz i think that’s the only way it’ll fit in my schedule.</p>
<p>as long as you have had math for like four years you are fine I think. They will see your math skills in your standarlized test scores so I don’t think it would really matter.</p>
<p>HYP and Brown do not have particularly different admissions criteria. Heck, the current Dean of Admissions at Brown was in the Harvard admissions office for 20 years before coming to Brown and would tell you that there is way more that the two schools look for that is the same than different. Of course, interest in Brown is fundamentally different than interest in Harvard, but they both want you to be uniquely well suited for their communities. Academics wise the criteria is really quite similar.</p>
<p>So to end rant one, don’t think that HYP is all that different from Brown or any other school that’s this selective.</p>
<p>Second point, stats is typically seen as not nearly as challenging as calc or pre-calc (it’s not), and one of the most important parts of the Brown application (as stated on the CDS) is strength of schedule. In my experience, short of going to a private school or public feeder, you really have to be very successful across the board in the most challenging classes offered to have a shot at standing out through the crowd. Not taking 4 years of math is definitely a bad sign. Nothing is an automatic rejection, nothing, but a way sub-par math score and a lack of a challenging math curriculum which shows competency in math in another direction will reflect poorly on you.</p>
<p>If I were an admissions officer I’d see that and say, “This person wants to come to Brown to avoid a clear weakness, and that’s not who I want to admit.” That’s just my perspective, as a fifth-year graduate student/recent graduate.</p>
<p>and yet brown brags at their info sessions, “come to brown! you’ll never have to take [insert subject you dislike] again!” </p>
<p>well ok, thanks for the info. i thought brown would be more understanding than its peers since it does obviously advocate the open curriculum for the reasons that they think students learn more when they take classes that actually interest them and are not just meaningless requirements. but oh, well, i guess they preach that philosophy but don’t admit the kinds of students who truly believe in it.</p>
<p>To be honest, I think you need precalc. You will be competing against students who have taken math classes such as AP Calc, AP Stats and even college math. What I mean is that to be realistic, your going to need at least precalc because you are competing against students who are taking AP calc and have much more difficult math classes.</p>
<p>@ modestmelody: oh, what, is it the “don’t be afraid to take a class outside your comfort zone!” thing? that’s still a part of the same philosophy. it indicates that a student is choosing his courses and therefore is more likely to be engaged in them, succeed in them. a student like me could take a math class that i actually WANT to take and i’d probably do good. but no, i’m forced to take pre-cal? which has absolutely no bearing on my academic interests, goals, nothing? that sounds counter-intuitive to the brown philosophy of taking courses one is actually interested in. it’s also counter-intuitive to their whole “you don’t have to be afraid to take it since you can pass/fail it”. but yet they expect everyone to have taken rigorous classes outside their comfort zone in high school without this option?</p>
<p>and @ cdz: yeah, i will take pre-cal since it is–for some unknown reason–that important to them.</p>
<p>Well to be honest I think it is fair that selective institutions discriminate against people who don’t take Pre-Calc.
From my point of view, as someone who wants to go into science, I find it really unfair that people who are simply good at humanities get admitted as equals to those who are good in science.
If we are being honest, sciences/math are way harder than humanities.
I got 800 in CR and I could probably succeed in any history/Eng. course; yet my passion is for science.
It seems unfair people who are good in humanities and poor at maths should have equal chance of acceptance.
After all, having proficiency in all subjects across the board in high school simply demonstrates a rudimentary understanding of all topics. I agree that in University people should be free to specialize, but in high school there should be a level playing field.</p>
<p>I think the idea is that you ‘should have/would have’ taken all the fundamental subjects in HS. This includes pre-Calc and a number of other courses, such as English Lit/Bio/Chem/Am His, etc. College is a time to explore your passions and [begin to] put it all together.</p>
<p>It’s a known fact that the adcoms are looking to see you’ve taken challenging courses. For you whitecad., it’s pre-Calc. For others, it might be a college level math course.</p>
<p>“it indicates that a student is choosing his courses and therefore is more likely to be engaged in them, succeed in them. a student like me could take a math class that i actually WANT to take and i’d probably do good. but no, i’m forced to take pre-cal? which has absolutely no bearing on my academic interests, goals, nothing?”</p>
<p>Pre-calculus is a standard course even for students who are not in honors or advanced math across the country. It’s a course that you cannot find at a school like Brown because it’s assumed and very few quantitative classes can be taken without having to fill in that gap on your own. This course is not seen, objectively, as a very challenging course. It may be, subjectively, challenging to you. In that case, it’s all the more important that you take it. The truth is, it doesn’t signal that you’re choosing wisely based upon your interests, it communicates risk aversion and that’s a problem. Moving out of your comfort zone is exactly the kind of thing which demonstrates that you’ll be able to responsibly use the Brown curriculum to explore. Brown doesn’t view it’s philosophy as extending infinitely to all realms of knowledge at all ages for all people. We expect our students to come in with the prerequisite knowledge required to be successful across our curriculum. We expect that you’ll choose courses which interest you, but we also expect that you’ll responsibly construct a broad liberal arts education and that you’ll take risks and challenge yourself.</p>
<p>This is entirely my opinion. I can’t stand chance thread crap and I think the advice on how to be or not be accepted on this page should all be taken with a HUGE grain of salt. Most people on here don’t even have 1/4 of a clue about this stuff, and I only have 1/2 a clue. But I will say, I think you’re expressing a common sentiment toward Brown and a common understanding of Brown which is simply wrong. As someone who really considered applying for the adcom position this last year and who probably had a decent shot of getting the job, without something really exceptional in another direction like having published a book, I would just see you as someone who is not as strong with math as our student body and as someone who is risk averse and unlikely to actually follow through and take a challenging course load that pushes the boundaries of your interests and abilities. You didn’t demonstrate that in high school so why would you do it in college?</p>
<p>Also, part of the reason why Brown has the luxury of our educational philosophy is because our students come in with strong, broad background and with a great core of knowledge. If we were less selective and didn’t have as well-prepared a student body, we wouldn’t be able to do what we do. So avoiding a course that is not sophisticated enough to be offered in our curriculum but is often seen as a prerequisite to even our lowest math class is not demonstrative of the background Brown expects.</p>
<p>i can understand advocating moving out of one’s comfort zone if they actually are interested in the subject and wish to expand their knowledge of it. if it’s something they might use in their life. but precal? seriously? any math past consumer math is ridiculously irrelevant to anyone besides math/science majors. science, history, and english all make sense: you actually learn about the world around you and expand your understanding of life. but math? it doesn’t expand one’s worldview in the slightest, it’s just memorizing formulas, and most people never ever ever use anything besides consumer math in their everyday life. you can say it has value for teaching people how to reason quantitatively but when do we actually have to do that? almost never.</p>
<p>the reason that i wouldn’t take honors pre-cal or ap calc is cuz i can predict with a lot of certainty that i wouldn’t get an a. as much as i try in my math classes, i just don’t think the way math people do. it is risk aversion, but it’s for a reason: getting a C in ap calc doesn’t look good to these colleges. if i took it, it would show that i’m not “risk averse” and am (for some unknown reason) taking an ADVANCED PLACEMENT class for a subject that doesn’t interest me or suit any of my academic goals, but you have to be honest: that is not what matters to them. they obviously expect their students to be geniuses in every subject, not just taking a challenging courseload. and i’m sure they can fill their class with those geniuses in every subject. i just don’t see how someone getting an a in ap calc will predict their success in a humanities field or vice versa.</p>
<p>it seems people have no clue what ap means anymore. would i qualify for ap calc? eh. probably not. am i advanced in math? nope.</p>
<p>“someone who is risk averse and unlikely to actually follow through and take a challenging course load that pushes the boundaries of your interests and abilities. You didn’t demonstrate that in high school so why would you do it in college?”</p>
<p>i would at brown cuz guess what? i could take classes i want and i could take classes outside my comfort zone cuz i wouldn’t fear “oh **** i got a c in it, now i won’t get into the colleges i want”. that’s the whole catch-22 i guess.</p>
<p>also it doesn’t make any sense at all to say i’m unlikely to “push the boundaries of my interests” since my hs transcript shows that i did indeed push the boundaries of my interests: humanities. i took much more challenging humanities classes than my peers did in earlier grades, only sophomore to challenge myself and take ap lang sophomore year, only freshman admitted to newspaper staff instead of beginning journalism, independent study in english, plus passionate and depth-filled ec’s in the humanities, 800 wr, predicted 800 cr. i would be a great english major at brown or any of its peer institutions. but since i’m not great in math, they won’t admit me as an english major? …whatever, then. i’ll take pre-cal, knowing full well that i’ll forget the material a couple months after i’m done, will never use it again in my life, and pretty much wasted my time taking it instead of pursuing something meaningful. and i’ll still apply and hope for the best.</p>
<p>“they obviously expect their students to be geniuses in every subject”…who knows what “they” are truly looking for!</p>
<p>“i would be a great english major at brown or any of its peer institutions. but since i’m not great in math, they won’t admit me”…don’t be so presumputious. Apply and then find out. Maybe you’re exactly what they’re looking for in an English major.</p>
<p>^i hope you’re right, and yes, i am going to apply still. i guess if they don’t want me cuz i’m not a genius in math, maybe it wouldn’t be the right school for me after all. which would be a shame since i think brown is a great school that i would thrive at once finally given the opportunity to take classes i want and actually get outside my comfort zone without the fear of it impacting my college admissions. the thing is, aside from math (which, like i said, i really don’t feel expands my mind at all), i WANT to take classes outside my comfort zone. this includes science and certain electives (english, history, foreign languages are my comfort zone, though i am good in science, i’m not a science genius). i’d love to take classes that i find interesting and that would challenge me and expand my worldview without the aforementioned fear. so i guess we’ll see. :)</p>
<p>This is really that “college process”: finding a college that’s a good match…one that’s right for you and one they think you’ll be right for. I’ve heard it often said that getting into college is sometimes harder than college itself.</p>
<p>yeah i agree. its just frustrating when YOU feel that you’re right for a particular school but they don’t agree; of course, that’s what many people go through when they’re rejected at a school they want to go to. but i feel it has an extra sting when you genuinely think you’re right for a school that rejects you and not just that you want to go to that school.</p>