I basically wanted to make this thread to try to clear the air about this, as I’ve heard a lot about it on either side. I have heard from some people that Cornell is cut-throat competitive (particularly in the pre-med and engineering fields), and from others that it fosters a more collaborative experience. For anyone who knows anyone in the school or is already at Cornell, which do you think it is? For reference, I would be going as a Policy Analysis and Management major, if it is dependent on the types of classes one would be taking.
I would be interested in learning more about how cut throat engineering is.
Define collaborative vs competitive first by listing behaviors and whether you perceive those as collaborative or competitive. Then present and past Cornellians can tell you whether such behaviors exist at Cornell. The words collaborative and competitive have different meanings for different people.
This is what I would describe as competitive vs. collaborative behaviors. To what extent does ANY of the below, happen at Cornell?
Competitive Behaviors:
(1) Student Psychology:
- Grades or GPAs are mentioned often between classes, OR the topic is not generally mentioned but people are more than eager to discuss it at length when it's brought up as way of relieving their stress about it
- Students are hesitant to study with you in a class with a bad curve
- Academic, or intellectual/subject-niche clubs (Chemistry, Economics, etc.), are more interested in networking and getting connections than actually discussing the subject matter or having fun
- This is a really facebook/gossip thing, but people who let others know about everything great they are doing (e.g. landing a good internship, organizing a club/event). Moreso in a flashy way, than a helpful way, that could encourage a competitive mindset towards others.
(2) Administrative:
- Professors don't seem to have the time or desire to pick up students for research projects.
- TAs, or recitation instructors, do most of the grading and legwork rather than the Professor.
- Class curves are not based on sound policy, and/or seem to encourage filtering people out.
Collaborative Behaviors:
Opposite of above.
I personally have not found Cornell to be cut-throat or overly competitive, BUT there definitely is a certain Cornell mentality that I don’t particularly like. It’s almost like people compete to be the busiest or work the hardest or stay up the latest. There’s a sort of unspoken mentality that you need to be working 24/7, which just really isn’t true. There’s also somewhat of a competitiveness across majors in that engineers/certain science majors will insist they put in much more work to their major and courses than people in other majors.
However, it’s entirely possible to find a collaborative atmosphere. Surround yourself with friends who are passionate about what they study and are curious to learn more about what you study. My friend and I get together every day to discuss interesting things we learned in our respective classes that day. I have another friend who takes some of the same courses as I do and we’ll get together to discuss the readings or talk about essay prompts.
So that was sort of anecdotal, but let me address the specific comments in post #3:
GPAs are almost never mentioned – I only know the GPA of one of my friends, but he is very careful not to share it with anyone else. I don’t think I’ve told anyone my GPA. Grades on exams or in courses are mostly just talked about in terms of doing well/poorly or getting the mean/above or below the mean. Nobody has ever come up to me and said “I got an 85, what did you get?”
Most of my classes aren’t curved, and I’m bad at forming study groups as it is, so I can’t really speak from personal experience. But I’ve never heard of this happening and I know people who study together for classes that are curved.
I’m not part of a subject-niche club but I am part of an Honor Fraternity that represents all majors, and we never focus on networking. I think that networking certainly is important but I’m not sure to what extent those clubs focus on it.
I don’t think this is a purely Cornell thing; I think people from all universities do this. I see it constantly on my Facebook, and I posted about accepting my internship as well. I’m not sure how someone could post this in a “helpful” way, and I don’t disagree that it does promote competitiveness and comparing yourself to what everyone else is doing. But I can overlook the occasional “not-so-humble brag” as long as it isn’t a constant thing – everyone deserves to sometimes be praised for their accomplishments!
I know people who do research and work in labs, so I don’t believe this is true.
This is true in a lot of larger classes. I’m not sure how this creates a competitive atmosphere, but it is kind of annoying that I’m sometimes being taught and graded by a grad student instead of a professor.
I’m not sure how curves are selected, but some of the bigger required courses for certain majors (e.g. orgo) are known for filtering people out/realizing they don’t want to be premed anymore, although I’m not sure how often that happens.
Varies by class. My son has a class where the professor encourages collaboration with 1 other student on homework assignments, and he did find a study buddy for that class. Not the norm but at least there is an example.
They have student run tutoring services, so at least there are some kids to help others.
Now there is competitive, which when you are surrounded by smart people, some will work hard and you can
fall behind in a the curve. My son worked hard last semester, got mostly As. He had a class he did not like
this semester, and he is struggling. Yes you do have to work hard at most classes.
NO it’s not. people do not go sneaking around ripping pages out of textbooks so if that’s the kind of story you wanted to hear then sorry. really…if you were able to get into cornell, then you could probably have googled “cornell cutthroat” and gotten results dating all the way back from 2005 on this website and more. i’m not sure what you want us to say here. i’m guessing since you heard back early you received a likely letter and want us to convince you why you should attend.
it frustrates me to see this sort of attitude. and i know it’s not just with cornell. if i pop on over to other forums i’ll come across posts like “UCLA is my dream school and i just got in, now spend an hour convincing me why i should actually attend!” but it’s still annoying.
clear the air? it’s been cleared so many times pleaaaase. now to actually answer your question: if you are a PAM major you will work harder than your average HumEc person but it will be entirely manageable. policy analysis and management is not anything like engineering or pre-med and even those people (edit: didn’t even finish my post lol) even those people are friendly and willing to work well with others. surprise?
ranza123, i’m going to have to politely disagree because i’ve seen that mentality in other places but find it’s not nearly as common here…
@kalerutabaga I will in all likelihood attend Cornell come this fall, I just wanted to make sure my fears were unfounded. That being said, thank you for your satisfying response.
@Ranza123 and @blevine thank you for your helpful input.
@kalerutabaga I was asking to get some useful feedback. I did not expect to be talked down to. It is normal for people to do research when they are going to making a decison that will affect their life. It is helpful to get information from current students. Looking back at 2005 really does not do alot for someone entering college in 2016. If anything your post is a turn off if you are the typical Cornell student.
gho4it - while kalerutabaga maybe came across a little . . . abrupt, I think you have to understand that when people say that they have heard that Cornell is cutthroat, it is a little offensive to Cornell students. The implication is, “I heard Cornell students are a bunch of unfriendly jerks.” You can imagine that doesn’t go over well and causes a certain defensiveness.
FWIW, my daughter is a sophomore (in CALS) and has never experienced any cutthroat behavior. In any environment that consists of high-achievers, you are going to encounter some overly-competitive and not-so-nice people. That will be true anywhere. And engineering and pre-med are going to be competitive pretty much anywhere you go to school. That is just the nature of those majors. For pre-med, the ability to overcome that competitive pressure is necessary if you want to get into med school (where acceptances are in the single digits).
I have two kids at Cornell, and while you would think the curves might make for a cutthroat atmosphere, both of them have remarked on the camaraderie instead. One is an engineer and one is a linguistics major. They do avoid the science classes that are heavy with premeds, though, because they say that taking classes with them is stressful.
Thank you @mdcmom that is good to know. My son plans to study biomedical engineering. He prefers a collaborative classes. Knowing science classes may be different is helpful to know going in.
There are three different first year physics courses and three different first year chemistry courses: Normal physics or chemistry (I believe this is the one most populated by pre-meds, but I could have it mixed up), physics or chemistry for majors, and physics or chemistry for engineers. Both of my kids, even the linguistics one, are taking the engineer versions and have good things to say about them. (My kids are from a small high school with a collaborative culture, just for context.)
I’m not sure about biology now but back when I was there B.C. (Before Children 
) there were two different first year biology courses, one more populated by pre-meds than the other because one was harder and for majors.
The kids haven’t said that the pre-meds are necessarily cutthroat; they’ve just remarked on how sorry they feel for them and that Cornell is a hard place to be pre-med.
How this topic and question persists is… There will always be competition at every top school. Does Cornell have cutthroat competitive type students? Yes. Does (insert peer school) have them too? Yes. Most students will generally be more collaborative in nature, though. I know plenty of very competitive peers but none that go out of their way to sabotage other students.
This is going to sound a bit cliche, but students at Cornell are not necessarily academically competitive with each other…it’s a lot more with themselves. I was personally a Business and Communication double major, but I had friends in every undergraduate college. In my classes, collaboration was encouraged and often times people studied or worked on problem sets together. I found this to be the same amongst my engineering and pre-med peers.
It does get a bit competitive when it comes to internships, but that is only a matter of selection because you have a bunch of talented individuals applying for the same few companies. However, students often prepare for interviews together. I applied for consulting firms this past recruitment season and prepared by running through case studies with fellow students and asking older students for advice. I have found that Cornell students want their peers to succeed and are very willing to help.
Just to add to this discussion: I find that clubs/student organizations are perhaps the places where you’ll find the most competition.
If you’re applying to a very popular organization like professional fraternities (PGN, AED, etc.), CUEMS, “elite” social fraternities (Psi U, Pike, etc.), you’ll quickly witness just how competitive people can be. These organizations often have lower acceptance rates than Cornell’s itself and I’ve heard how cutthroat, especially in the professional frats, people get. There are applications, multiple rounds of interviews, and social rounds just to apply.
That said, there really isn’t a lot of “competition” amongst premeds/engineers/prelaw. You won’t find people stealing your notes or refusing to study with you or calling up med schools and smearing your name. I agree with @lichte94; students are more competitive with themselves than each other. (Mostly) everyone here works hard and plays hard.