Hi,
I’m working with my DS (junior) to compile a college list. He has a 2200 SAT (1570 M+CR), and a 4.0 UW GPA (at least 4.5 weighted). He is an outstanding musician (playing since age 6, has won international and numerous concerto competitions) but wants to major in Computer Science and Math/Statistics at a school with access to music (such as local options, or a symphony orchestra that non-majors can participate in) rather than attend a music conservatory. He loves math as well as music (took AP Calc as a freshman, currently in college math), and is very practical, knowing that he can continue to pursue music as a hobby and even audition for an orchestra without being a music major. Socially, he loves Pokemon and Magic the Gathering in addition to music (no sports) and is a fun-loving kid who has never needed to study hard to get good grades He really wants a smaller, more personal school. We visited Harvey Mudd and he LOVED it; he is also interested in Cal Poly SLO (visiting next week). Cost is a concern; we can comfortably afford $30k per year (have two in college), and we don’t want them or us to take out any loans. He is not interested in any of the UC schools, because they are “large and impersonal” except as a last resort. I’m really not sure where to look. We’re Jewish, so the Christian colleges aren’t an option (although we plan to look at Santa Clara). Any ideas? He prefers to stay in-state, but is looking at Carnegie Mellon and Rice since they have great CS and music opportunities. Do you think he has the stats for any significant merit aid at any of these schools? Any others that might be a fit?
University of Rochester would be a great idea. Even if your son does not play at Eastman, he can enjoy it. U of R is a fantastic school where merit is possible. Another idea is Lehigh or WPI. My nephew is a freshman at Rochester on a big merit award.
Side note, Santa Clara is a Jesuit school. Jesuits are a Catholic order. It is not a Christian school. Yes of course, Catholics are Christians but the schools are not run like Christian schools.
A Jewish student can be right at home in a Catholic school. You will see when you visit.
Has he looked into the College of Creative Studies at UCSB- it’s a small unusual school within the large institution. Harvey Mudd does sound perfect for him. For a safety, you might look at the University of Redlands. I don’t know the strength of their math and CS departments, but they do give merit aid and have a strong music program. You could also look at Chapman - again, I don’t know anything about their math & CS departments.
Not sure what the opportunities are for music at CMU for non majors - he would want to look into that as they might be limited, unless he does one of their special minors or whatever they call it. Since you’re looking at the East Coast, MIT has a wonderful music program, especially if he started to get interested in composing. And Yale and Princeton, too, are great places for undergrad non music majors. Of course- no merit at those schools, but good financial aid. Williams has a great math department, and terrific music. But no merit money.
For a different option, he might want to look into St. Olaf and Lawrence University in the midwest, for both math and music. Here are some threads from the music major forum about music and math:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1749227-what-are-the-best-schools-for-music-math-double-majors.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1755061-where-should-i-attend-math-and-music-major.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/music-major/1816750-dual-degree-programs-for-music-and-computer-science-engineering-p1.html
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parent-cafe/952321-does-any-of-your-kids-double-major-in-computer-engineering-and-music.html
And a thread about merit aid for non music majors at Liberal Arts Schools:
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/1727619-music-for-non-music-major-at-merit-aid-liberal-arts-college-p1.html
The Music Major forum also has a number of discussions on which schools have good orchestras for non music majors.
St. Olaf is a great idea.
Throwing a few ideas out there (with the caveat that my kid was looking at bio/ psychology, not math/ cs)
Occidental (LAC in LA). I know they give some merit aid, but maybe not as much as some other places. Not sure of their math dept/ cs department in particular.
College of Creative Studies at UC Santa Barbara… from what I hear, the classes are quite small. Not sure if these kids are housed separately from the general population of the otherwise-huge school, though, but it might be enough to have the smaller classes.
Willamette in Salem, Oregon (disclaimer - my daughter goes there). Not in CA but still West Coast so not as far as Boston, etc. Nice LAC that gives very good merit aid to top students. They have EA so it’s a nice one to apply to to have an acceptance in the bag in December.
Reed and Lewis and Clark in Portland - also west coast. Lewis and Clark also has EA and good merit aid.
Rice in Houston - okay, it’s not west coast, but it’s still warm, Houston is easy to get to from CA, and they are known for good undergrad teaching and their STEM subjects.
and perhaps a real outlier:
University of Central Florida. I have no direct experience but I’ve heard good things about their CS department and really good merit aid. And also warm, although not CA.
Did he take the PSAT? And was his score above the Calif cut off?
If the answer to both questions is yes then add USC to the list. Although it is not small, it does have both an outstanding Music School- Thorton, a great Engineering school- Vertibi , AND any National Merit finalist who is accepted there is automatically awarded 1/2 tuition scholarships.
Rice’s top music programs are going to be limited to those majoring in music. Possibly they have an orchestra for students not in Shepherd, however. USC I would think also limits the top orchestra and chamber opportunities to those in Thornton - but it does allow a Music Minor which might open up some playing opportunities for him. The problem for non Music Majors who want to be in the top ensembles - often if there is a School of Music attached to the college it is more difficult to participate. Often non music majors are much better off in schools without a formal School of Music - although there are exceptions, as discussed in threads on the Music Major forum - which I didn’t post.
Reed, Lewis & Clark, Willamette - none of them are known for music. For a small liberal arts college in the Northwest with strong music, and opportunities for non music majors, and merit aid - look at the University of Puget Sound. However, I know nothing about the math and CS departments.
Given how advanced he is in math, he may want a math department that has a graduate program if he majors in math. Otherwise, he may run out of sufficiently advanced offerings, just like now in high school. In any case, he will likely be in the small upper division math courses at even the big UCs.
Some other UCs and CSUs are smaller than CPSLO.
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Jesuits are a Catholic order. It is not a Christian school.
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lol…yes it is a Christian school.
However, you are right that Jewish students typically feel comfortable at Jesuit and other Catholic schools.
We just went through the process of identifying small schools with great music that’s accessible to non-majors and solid CS programs and two of the schools already mentioned on this thread, U. of Puget Sound and St. Olaf, are two of his top choices. Your son’s stats would net him large merit awards at either school, and both offer music scholarships to non-majors that stack with the academic merit awards. The music is probably stronger at St. Olaf, but the CS is stronger at UPS, though math is reportedly excellent at St. O. Gettysburg is also worth a hard look (the instruction and ensembles at their Sunderman conservatory appear to be accessible to non-majors). Someone mentioned Lawrence, and while their music is excellent, their CS department is quite weak. Not sure about their pure math.
My son recently returned from a live audition for a music scholarship at St. Olaf and he was blown away by how good the top orchestra is.
U. of Rochester does have Eastman right there, but I don’t believe non-conservatory kids can play in the Eastman ensembles or take lessons with Eastman faculty (though you should check).
Brandeis might also be worth a look. I’ve heard good things about their music, they do offer some merit money, and their CS is quite strong. Also, as someone up-thread mentioned, having access to some graduate level courses might be a plus for a kid as advanced as your son, so that would be another thing in the plus column for them.
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/discussion/comment/19190340/#Comment_19190340 is a list of some smaller colleges’ more advanced CS offerings.
@mom2collegekids “Christian Schools” and “Catholic Schools” are very different. The former being much more scripture based, some to the point of extreme. I am not aware of any Catholic schools teaching the world is 6,000 years old. Any Catholic college a student is likely to visit won’t exhibit the fundamentalist traits of a Christian College or university. Most Catholic school are pretty rambunctious party-wise.
Chapman. Their brand new Center for the Arts opened this weekend. With his stats he will most likely get great merit aid. Not sure on CS department but worth checking out. Segerstrom Center for the Arts in Orange County is close by with opportunities to perform outside of college. Worth a look.
Honestly, you might want to take a hard look at Ivy’s as well. With that impressive a music resume, I would think he’d have a shot. Princeton, for instance, I think has an excellent CS department and a very good orchestra. They might not meet your financial requirements, but they are some of the very most generous schools in the country with need-based aid, and will offer at least some assistance at considerably higher income levels than most schools. Just a thought.
Even in the realm of schools within the same denomination, the level of religious intensity varies. For example, among Catholic schools, compare a Jesuit-run school with Christendom. Or, among Southern Baptist schools, compare Baylor with Liberty.
The other thing to consider is a small school in a region with a top Youth Orchestra. For instance, top student musicians at Stanford and UC Berkeley play in the SF Symphony Youth Orchestra. Students in the NYC area do the same with the NY Youth Orchestra. So you could look for a small school with a great CS or Math department - within commuting distance to a youth orchestra. Which means most major metropolitan areas.
I was just looking at St. Olaf for my own S18 and found that while they are accepting of all religions, they do require 2 religion classes, one on the bible and another on Christian theology. My son’s not really interested in being required to take a Christian theology class, so it’s off the list for us.
Wow, thank you all so much for the suggestions! My son is really interested in the College of Creative Studies at UCSB. We hadn’t heard of it before, and it seems like a good fit. He’s such a good kid… I mentioned Princeton and he said, “I really think Cal Poly SLO is a good value. I really don’t want you to spend any more than that.” I think I’ll keep this one close to home ;-).
I wouldn’t rule out a college like Princeton because of money- the financial aid is so good it could be cheaper than a public in state. Music at Cal Poly is not going to be at his level although there may be a small cohort there like him with whom he could play. Glad we could point you to the College of Creative Studies.