<p>^^^Interesting chart. I notice that Georgetown's numbers seemed a bit better than NU's. I think that's very telling of where student priorities really lie, especially considering all the arguing going on in this thread about GTown, Vandy, ND vs NU vs non-HYP ivies.</p>
<p>Yes, according to Revealed Preferences (yet another study / ranking on my side):</p>
<p>Cornell is the only school that loses out to ND by two spots (though Cornell still ranks higher than G-Town and Vandy)</p>
<p>with every other Ivy outranking ND, G-Town, Vandy.</p>
<p>Another interesting thing I noticed about that chart is that Duke looks like it's extremely underrated by those surveyed.</p>
<p>Lol these debates are humorous, because NOONE is ever convinced -- NOONE (including myself) ever changes their minds .</p>
<p>When was the last time you on CC that you saw, "Hey, you know what buddy..I was completely wrong...you were totally right. My school IS in fact a tier 3 rathole, and I withdraw all my past statements."</p>
<p>The discussion merely goes in circles with the same links from various rankings in an attempt to support the same assertions from the same posters.</p>
<p>But hey it's a free country...</p>
<p>With respect to a free market economy, I think it is wise to evaluate colleges by the strength of their student bodies. Thus, we assume that students themselves are choosing the best colleges given their options. </p>
<p>Vandy/Emory/Gtown/Notre Dame = all have SAT averages below 1400</p>
<p>Cornell is in this group.</p>
<p>Penn/Brown/Columbia = 1400-1440</p>
<p>Northwestern is in this group. The discussion should end here.</p>
<p>And in terms of yield, it should be known that Cornell's yield for its private schools is considerably lower than is the yield for the statutory colleges.</p>
<p>Exhibit A: <a href="http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000004.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://dpb.cornell.edu/documents/1000004.pdf</a>
endowed schools yield (CAS, Hotel, Eng, Archit) = 41.1 This yield is almost identical to that of Northwestern and Duke.</p>
<p>statutory schools yield (Hum Ec, Agric, ILR) = 64.2</p>
<p>As shown, the incredibly high yield of the "state" subsidized schools vastly increases Cornell's yield. And this says something about the "desirability" of Cornell's endowed schools, which compete heavily with the aformentioned schools (probably much more than does an agriculture school!).</p>
<p>collegebound-
Why not use the average SAT at the Cornell endowed colleges which is only about 15 points below Penn and Columbia?</p>
<p>The best 6000 students at Cornell are much better than the best 6000 students at Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, or Notre Dame.</p>
<p>collegehelp, we can use the average SAT of Cornell endowed colleges. However, by doing so, we are basically saying that only 1/2 of Cornell is a top notch school? Is that what you are saying? </p>
<p>The fact is that Cornell's student body lags behind some of the other schools.</p>
<p>NU, this year, has a 1422 average SAT for the entire ENROLLED student body.</p>
<p>If we just took into consideration the arts/sci school and engineering schools, I am sure this average would be even higher!</p>
<p>This was confirmed by the Northwestern Magazine as well.</p>
<p>Looking</a> Ahead: A Year of Tradition and Change, Winter 2007, Northwestern University</p>
<p>
[quote]
The best 6000 students at Cornell are much better than the best 6000 students at Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, or Notre Dame.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I can't even begin to address the absurdity of that statement.</p>
<p>Penn's SAT average for ENROLLED this year was 1419 in comparison.
Gazette</a> | Gazetteer: News & Sports</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that NU is better than Penn. Penn has a lower acceptance rate. The point is that NU has a student body that is very comparable to that of the lower ivies, and relatively stronger than the likes of Cornell, Gtown, Vandy, Notre Dame, etc.</p>
<p>It may help in these discussions to reference the common data that is published, but never in one easy table. Here is my contribution to the day's discussion! I have ordered all the schools (of which I am aware) that accept 30 or fewer % of the applicants, in order of selectivy. Then the % who accept (% go), along with the 25 & 75% of SAT score, and finally a note on the size of the school.</p>
<p>You were speaking of Northwestern. I note they (and also Chicago) have very high test scores. It is puzzling to me why they don't get more applications... therefore their acceptance rate appears rather high compared to some of the other schools. UCLA is on the other end... very tough to get in to, but the test scores are the lowest by a very large margin of the 34 schools I note in the first section. I can only conclude that the California public schools (the vast majority of applicants to the UC schools) are doing a very poor job of training its students to think critically and perform basic math functions.</p>
<pre><code>% in % go SAT 25th% SAT 75th% Size
</code></pre>
<p>Harvard 9 79 1390 1590 M
Yale 9 70 1390 1570 S/M
Princeton 10 69 1370 1590 S/M
Cooper Union 10 78 1240 * 1470 S
Stanford 11 67 1340 1540 M
Columbia 12 58 1350 1540 S/M
MIT 13 69 1380 1560 S/M
Brown 14 59 1350 1530 S/M
Dartmouth 16 49 1350 1550 S/M
Caltech 17 37 * 1470 * 1570 S
Penn 18 66 1330 1530 M
Pomona 18 39 1370 1520 S
Williams 19 47 1340 1520 S
Amherst 19 38 1330 1530 S
Swarthmore 19 40 1320 1530 S
Wash U 21 31 1370 1530 M<br>
Georgetown 22 47 1290 1490 M<br>
Duke 22 42 1380 1570 M<br>
Claremont 22 37 1270 1470 S<br>
Berkeley 24 42 1200 * 1450 L<br>
Rice 24 34 1330 1540 S/M
Cornell 25 47 1280 1490 M/L
USC ^ 25 32 1280 1460 M/L
UCLA 26 39 1180 * 1410 L<br>
Haverford 26 36 1290 1500 S<br>
Notre Dame 27 58 * 1230 1460 M<br>
Johns Hopkins 27 32 1290 1490 S/M
Wesleyan 28 36 1290 1480 S<br>
Boston College 29 30 1250 1420 M<br>
Bard 29 36 1320 1430 S<br>
Northwestern 30 38 1320 1500 M<br>
Vassar 30 37 1300 1450 S
Harvey Mudd 30 28 1420 * 1550 S
* seeming outliers<br>
^ big move up in past 25 years<br>
U of Chicago 38 34 1320 1530 S/M</p>
<p>Other highly rated large Publics<br>
North Carolina 34 57 1200 1390 M/L
Virginia 37 51 1220 1430 L
Michigan 47 44 1210 1420 L
UT - Austin 57 55 1100 1350 L
Penn St. 58 40 1080 1280 L
Illinois 65 50 1160 1410 L</p>
<p>other UCs<br>
UC San Diego 49 22 1140 1360 L
UCSB 53 19 1070 1310 M/L
UCI 60 21 1110 1310 M/L+
UC Davis 68 25 1030 1280 L
UCSC 80 17 1020 1270 M/L
UC Riverside 83 22 910 1170 M/L</p>
<pre><code>12 S = under 2000
9 S/M = 2000 - 6000
9 M = 6001 - 10,000
2 M/L = 10001 - 20000
2 L = 20,000+
34
</code></pre>
<p>
[quote]
The best 6000 students at Cornell are much better than the best 6000 students at Duke
[/quote]
</p>
<p>LMAO. This is FALSE. If you are using SAT scores as an indicator of student strength, Duke is stronger. The average SAT of Duke student is higher than that of a Cornell student.</p>
<p>Here is the 25%-75% for both schools</p>
<p>
[quote]
Duke 1380 - 1570
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cornell 1280 - 1490
[/quote]
</p>
<p>^^When is that data from? It doesn't seem exactly accurate.</p>
<p>Any college can be compared to any other college as to statistics by using the College Board College QuickFinder. </p>
<p>E.g, </p>
<p>College</a> Search - Cornell University - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>
<p>College</a> Search - Duke University - Duke - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>
<p>College</a> Search - Northwestern University - NU - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>
<p>College</a> Search - University of Pennsylvania - Penn - SAT®, AP®, CLEP® </p>
<p>College</a> Search - University of Notre Dame - Notre Dame - SAT®, AP®, CLEP®</p>
<p>If you sorted students by SAT score. the SATs of the 6000th student at Cornell are about 100 points higher or more than the 6000th student at Northwestern, Duke, Notre Dame, or Vanderbilt. It is no contest.</p>
<p>collegehelp, 25 percent of Cornell's enrolled student body has below a 1280 on their SAT?</p>
<p>That means roughly 3250 of Cornell's 13000 undergrads scored below a 1280. That is a significant amount of undergrads with very subpar scores!!!</p>
<p>Your statement is misleading because Cornell's student body is significantly larger than the other schools.</p>
<p>You're playing off the fact that 6000 students comprise roughly all of Duke and Vanderbilt's undergraduate bodies, and 75% of Notre Dame and NU's.</p>
<p>In contrast, 6000 represents a bit less than half of Cornell's undergraduate body.</p>
<p>That's so totally an apples to apples comparison. :rollseyes:</p>
<p>In the words of the great philosopher Sean Carter, "Men lie. Women lie. Numbers don't."</p>
<p>It IS an apples to apples comparison. If you take the best 6000 (or 5000 or 1000, and so on) at each school, Cornell has a much better community of student scholars than almost any school in the country, including the other Ivies. And, at Cornell, the best SAT students are concentrated in the endowed colleges, although the NYS statutory students have special talents. The statutory schools at Cornell are the best of their kind in the world.</p>