Computer gaming: a boy-only EC?

Parent Cafe
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<p>Reading this article:
Universities</a> admit men with lower qualifications than women in order to maintain the right gender ratio. Why aren't men prepared for college? - WSJ.com</p>

<p>I began to think about how girls DO dominate the EC's at our local high school. Then I look at DS2 in 8th grade. Sure he does school music, writes for the newspaper, plays a recreational sport, but what really floats his boat is electronic media arts. And that is a world that seems to be all-male. Furthermore, it is invisible to the schools, but as far as I can see is an area of explosive creativity and intellectual challenge.</p>

<p>What does he do? Well, he plays games, some. (Says you have to play the games to know the culture, although we don't allow hyper-violent games.) He designs things for games, objects that are uploaded into multi-player games. He writes scripts for machinima. Learns software for creating special effects. Also, he has learned to program in several languages, although I don't see that that gets used in the online world, but he's written simple games from scratch. He begged to have a computer tutor, so we have been paying a grad student to work with him once a week. He's also into video production.</p>

<p>My question is: are the boys actually more productively (and independently) engaged than we think, but by our measures it doesn't "count"? How many posts do I see here that say "My son has high tests scores but a so-so 'record'".</p>

<p>Just to clarify, to really be able to participate is this online world is a matter of high ambition. DS already had decided, despite VERY high math aptitude, that he's not a math guy in this world. "Mom, the mathematicians working on these programs are AMAZING." He aspires to contribute on the artistic end.</p>

<p>What do with think about this male-dominated part of our world? Is it legit? It is very much outside our schools. Is that OK? If this is the way our culture is going, are our boys more engaged than we think?</p>

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<p>You might want to consider channeling your son’s creative interests in computer games into a degree in Computer Science/Games. USC has this program as well as a few other universities. Carnegie Mellon has an Entertainment/CS oriented program at the Masters level. Could also consider a degree in Computer Animation (USC) and at community colleges. Your son is obviously very intelligent–try to match his interests into a productive college experience.</p>

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<p>Well yes. But college is far away. I guess my question is: All through high-school (and not just for my son) do we have boys tuning out to school and such because there are so few teachers/administrators who consider this a legitimate interest? Their passion is invisible and unsanctioned in the high school world we create for them. To me media arts and technology seems like this enormous cultural wave of the future.</p>

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<p>I think that there would be few teachers or staff who could effectively mentor kids who are interested in this even, if the adults thought game technology was a viable ec.</p>

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<p>"Well yes. But college is far away. I guess my question is: All through high-school (and not just for my son) do we have boys tuning out to school and such because there are so few teachers/administrators who consider this a legitimate interest? Their passion is invisible and unsanctioned in the high school world we create for them. To me media arts and technology seems like this enormous cultural wave of the future. "</p>

<p>Firstly, let me be the girl gamer in this thread to feel that the line of thinking (about guys = gaming) is slightly bs and moreover offensive. Are there a lot of men gaming? Of course. But are there women too? Yes…we are not so rare a creature your son will never meet one. </p>

<p>That being said, there is a nugget of truth here. I may have been a gamer all my life (video, tabletop, computer, etc) but I know it’s not THE thing to do for everyone. And moreover often gets a bad rap. (I think differently, case in point: My essay was on how being a geek shed light on my political interest in the world; how gaming and creating and destroying civilizations on the computer led me to start wondering about how real states formed and collapsed and how they were run…etc.) </p>

<p>I’m sorry your son has no access to some of the programs I did either. I went to a half-day tech school in conjunction with my HS. I spent the summer in 3D animation, and the year in Graphic Design. (I found 3D very slow, and enjoyed collage work and typography, so there you go.) [EVIT</a> Programs! | East Valley Institute of Technology, Mesa, Arizona 85201(EVIT Programs)](<a href=“http://www.evit.com/programs/programs.html]EVIT”>http://www.evit.com/programs/programs.html) 3D animation was actually one of the best and strongest programs available to our local HS’s so it’s really a matter of you live in a place without that outlet, rather than a place with one. </p>

<p>"For several years EVIT’s 3d students have taken the gold at a statewide competition known as SkillsUSA, placing them in the top two percent of their field nationwide. Upon completion of this course the student will have his or her own digital portfolio including a demo reel of their work to present to potential employers. " </p>

<p>They liked to brag! And it was part of the schooling system.</p>

<p>I don’t know what your son has local, but I’m sure he could find something. As for grades? Well, we all have to be in classes we don’t want to be. They could engage just as actively as anyone else in those things, but don’t. I think there’s a problem when you make excuses for not doing something just because you don’t want to, or have something you prefer.</p>

<p>Is gaming legit? Hell yeah!</p>

<p>[The</a> University of Advancing Technology](<a href=“http://www.uat.edu/]The”>http://www.uat.edu/) UAT is here in AZ and top of the line, imho. They almost always take out ads in Newsweek or whoever’s BEST COLLEGES. Your son would probably love it: they have some really great languages he’ll need (like Japanese) you choose pirate v. ninja. (Ninja I think is the school mascot though…not sure.) and you do some hardcore stuff that will make it easier to get him a job. </p>

<p>Plus, and here I self-promote: He has access to a local (and ever growing) Comics Convention. Phoenix Comicon (and volunteering for it) happens to be my biggest EC. xD</p>

<p>Bottom line: It’s legit, indulge it, but don’t fail out of classes or refuse to pay attention because of it. It’s NOT an excuse, just a really cool and really competitive career track. AND GIRLS LOVE IT TOO. REALLY LOVE IT. :)</p>

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<p>Yes, it’s legit, though not always appreciated. My son worked on the a mod for Civilisation 4 that was named the best mod in Gaming Magazine. We had no idea until we were putting together his resume senior year. His school had a computer club, but he was way beyond anything they did. We did encourage our son to find a couple of school based ECs - he likes competitions so he did Science Olympiad and Academic Team - the rest of his time (and there was a lot of it) he messed around on computers. </p>

<p>We found a summer school class in programming computer graphics for gaming at Columbia’s summer school one year, the other years he worked for a company that produces websites. He also did some programming work for a couple of med school professors. (He has a connection through his father.) Ultimately my son decided graphics and games was not his area of interest, but many of the colleges we looked at have gaming majors. </p>

<p>I recommend networking and seeing if you can find some way for your son to put his talents to use in addition to the things he’s doing now. Perhaps the school website could be updated and made more interactive? Perhaps you know someone who needs some programming skills?</p>

<p>In addition to the schools listed above, RPI offers a gaming/graphics major. Our son also applied to WPI, though I can’t remember if they have a more gaming/graphics oriented major as he ended up in straight computer science.</p>

<p>(And BTW, I do know some girls who are also interested in gaming.)</p>

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<p>I agree that there can be a great deal of creativity associated with computer gaming, and have a 13 y.o. S who has shown this to me several times over.</p>

<p>My biggest concern with this (and the reason I am insisting that S also have other interests/activities) is that there it seems to be so socially isolating. I actually do know a few girls who have this interest, but they tend to have poor social skills. Mathmom’s suggestion of networking is a good one.</p>

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<p>I wouldn’t qualify computer gaming as an “EC” for most people. For your son, yes, because he’s programming his own games and CREATING. For most people, it involves sitting there punching buttons and that’s it. Not a lot of personal input or creativity, you’re beating the boss monster the same way thousands of other people beat the boss monster. I’m not putting down gaming–I’m female and enjoy playing computer games myself–but it is what it is.</p>

<p>There is definitely more of a male gamer “culture.” That said, the best-selling computer game franchise of all times, The Sims series, has a majority of female players.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure how socially isolating computer gaming necessarily is. I really believe that working with his “crew” or “guild” or whatever unit, has enhanced my son’s communication skills and even his critical thinking and leadership skills. My son combines a healthy gaming interest (let’s say, more than an hour a day :wink: ) with being president of his student council, holding a state-wide student council office and serving as a varsity captain. He has been dealing effectively with adults online for years and has even formed online “friendships” that have carried over between games. Last year he found out that a couple of his online contacts were actually local hs students that he had played lacrosse with in the off-season.</p>

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<p>Sorry about being sexist. I should know better having worked in a formerly male-dominated field. My apologies.</p>

<p>I guess my thought was when I read that article about boys having lower grades and fewer EC’s was that here we have a pastime loved by boys (and girls) and it has this challenging, vastly creative side to it so that it could be a way to engage boys in something exciting and intellectual… are we missing an opportunity?</p>

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<p>archiemom-It sounds as if your son has a good balance. I do know kids like this, but also others who are beside themselves if they are not “plugged in”. The computer gaming can be a positive thing, but too much is well, too much.</p>

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<p>Like anything else, it is one thing to be “a gamer” and love to play - designing and creating at a high level is a whole 'nother ball game. S1 started out studying CS but is considering a change to Digital Media Design because apparently some of the games (like farmville on fb) require new code every other day. The math is incredibly intense as well. Have him do summer programming courses @ places like Carnegie Mellon or robotics @ Penn. My son did everything he could get his hands on and when college admission time rolled around - they looked at this “layering of passion” the same way they viewed any other EC (and he attends an Ivy now).</p>

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<p>I also have to add that my older son (college junior AE major with a minor in CS) was heavily into programming in high school…teaching himself languages and even creating a web-based game that was supposed to rival Mob Wars. I believe that his involvement in the programming side of gaming was a significant influence in his current area of specialization: programming the computer systems that guide satellites and other aeronautical stuff (sorry…that’s as technical as I get with the whole AE field :wink: ).</p>

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<p>well what about students that love to read and write? we have questions about that occassionally. thatz extremely creative as well, but just as invisible to schools.</p>

<p>i think the reason why it doesn’t “count” is bc it’s not thru an organization. if hez into computers (and who isnt), then start a club or join one that has to do with something he loves. make it “count” :)</p>

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<p>As least you get English class…</p>

<p>But, yeah, you’re right about the students that love to read and write. Except well, most school have students newspapers and literary magazines, and there are some competitions… but what if you are working on a novel? As for reading, I agree, DS1 had read an incredible amount of science fiction by the end of high school. It didn’t get mentioned on most of his college applications anywhere. Just made him a more interesting person :)</p>

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<p>Your son can certainly start an “electronic media arts” club in his high school and make it a school sanctioned EC; however, you don’t need a club or an official stamp of approval from the school to have a credible (or an incredible) EC. As long as he can demonstrate his passion through sustained commitment and showcase his talent with excellent projects (and recognition if possible), adcoms will take notice. In fact, adcoms see so much run of the mill EC’s that something different and creative would be a huge plus.</p>

<p>Otoh, I doubt pure gaming, as in just playing video games, would be considered legitimate EC unless your child is a professional gamer capable of winning money tournaments. There was a girl, yes a girl, in my son’s hs who was so good at a multiplayer game – I forgot the name of the game – that she won big money in tournaments and was considered one of the best in the world. The girl was recruited as a highly paid professional game tester right after she graduated.</p>

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<p>Good points, pop. I’m actually not so much worried about my son - he’s incredibly self-directed.</p>

<p>It’s just the article I linked to about all the boys that are under-performing, it made me think that this is perhaps a potential venue to draw them into their high school world more.</p>

<p>So maybe, if as you suggest, my son were to start an “electronic media arts” club, maybe that would be a huge community service.</p>

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<p>I just stumbled on this Link. The Scholastic Arts and Writing Awards has a new category this year. Video games!</p>

<p>[Alliance</a> for Young Artists & Writers](<a href=“http://www.artandwriting.org/news]Alliance”>http://www.artandwriting.org/news)</p>

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<p>“It’s just the article I linked to about all the boys that are under-performing, it made me think that this is perhaps a potential venue to draw them into their high school world more.”</p>

<p>Is it a venue? Yes. Many kids go into gaming design or art or comics, or what have you. </p>

<p>But it’s not the reason why boys are underpreforming, and it won’t solve the problem. </p>

<p>And like everyone else has said, plenty of girls do this too. And I think you’ll find that there’s a slowly growing push for more girls in this field as well, since it IS so male-dominated. But while this is a great way to get kids involved in something (although maybe unorthodox) It’s not really going to cure reading skills or make boys test higher or graduate college more. </p>

<p><em>shrugs</em></p>

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<p>The article mentions some headway made in Australia for early literacy training for boys. Girls seem to have trouble with math beginning as young teens, and it was recommended that they be trained separately from boys in math. Perhaps the boys need to be trained separately from girls in literacy at a young age. Reading (and writing) is too important to ignore.</p>

<p>Not saying gaming is not worthwhile, but I wouldn’t want to see literacy thrown out the window in its favor.</p>