Young males and relevant teaching techniques

Parents Forum
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<p>Hi Parents, Students and College Folks, </p>

<p>I am seeing more and more bright young men get tripped up with compliance issues in high school. By this, I mean the kid may understand the material but not finish or turn in a neat, complete homework assignment. </p>

<p>We host a weekly Dungeons and Dragons group. The teen males are brilliant! They are funny, creative, and make nuanced, correct connections across a number of fields. But, I'd have to hazard that most of them float in the B to C grade zone -- primarily due to poor compliance with grading rubrics. </p>

<p>I am beginning to see this as a version of Patrick Henry's famous "Give me Liberty or Give me Death" speech. It is sort of "To get Liberty, I'll take the F". </p>

<p>I think this has consequences for our society at large. The B- to C male may not see himself as college material. </p>

<p>I am looking for articles/experiences that I can share with our local high school administration in the hopes of engineering some improvements. What have you got to share? (Please).</p>

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<p>I found this article very insightful. </p>

<p>March 1, 2010</p>

<p>"When adolescence hit Frances Jensen’s sons, she often found herself wondering, like all parents of teenagers, “What were you thinking?”</p>

<p>“It’s a resounding mantra of parents and teachers,” says Jensen, who’s a pediatric neurologist at Children’s Hospital in Boston…</p>

<p>Jensen is a Harvard expert on epilepsy, not adolescent brain development. As she coped with her boys’ sour moods and their exasperating assumption that somebody else will pick up their dirty clothes, she decided to investigate what neuroscientists are discovering about teenagers’ brains that makes them behave that way.</p>

<p>Jensen’s older son Andrew Murphy, now a physics major at Wesleyan, is the reason his mother first started studying the teenage brain. She wanted to find out what was causing his maddening teenage behavior.</p>

<p>Teenage Brains Are Different</p>

<p>She learned that that it’s not so much what teens are thinking — it’s how.</p>

<p>Jensen says scientists used to think human brain development was pretty complete by age 10. Or as she puts it, that “a teenage brain is just an adult brain with fewer miles on it.”…</p>

<p>[The</a> Teen Brain: It’s Just Not Grown Up Yet : NPR](<a href=“http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=124119468]The”>The Teen Brain: It's Just Not Grown Up Yet : NPR)</p>

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<p>Ultimately, the problem is that one-size schools do not serve all kids equally well. My son excelled in the standard format school, as did many of his male friends. Changing the format would not have helped this group of boys.</p>

<p>The solution is to open up the system to real school choice. If all parents, not just well-to-do ones, could choose the schools their kids attend, a variety of types of schools would eventually be developed. Choice is power. Pleading with entrenched bureaucracies will pretty much get you nowhere.</p>

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<p>I’m sorry I do not have any articles for you. However I must comment on the irony of promoting a fantasy card game while the boys are so far from meeting their academic potential. Could the time not be better spent on an EC that would broaden their real-world scope, whether MUN, athletics, or volunteering? </p>

<p>As long as we allow our teens to pitter their time away (video games!) they will fall furthur behind their peers. “Grading rubrics” may not be pleasant, but, like work performance evaluations, they are a reality. Rather than condemn the system, we would better prepare our children for college and adult life by modeling “manning up” and getting the details done. My DDs were taught early to “woman up” even though they might not like the assignment. They were not neat and tidy, like many parents assume all girls are, but they engaged deeply in the content. </p>

<p>They freely admitted they could never sit still enough to plow through all the crazy assignments without hours of hard athletic practice each afternoon. The many successful boys of their classes also had a balance of the physical and intellectual.</p>

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<p>^I’m going to throw something into the mix here, just for the sake of adding to the argument: </p>

<p>First, my pet peeve. I find it frustrating when people disrespect others’ ECs. It smacks of elitism and judgment often with a ton of superficial stereotyping and not a ton of thought. Packing boxes of food for the cause of the month, or sitting on a bench in basketball, or playing an instrument without a lot of intense practice (and we could go on here), is not necessarily any more developmental or valuable or socially noble than say playing dungeons and dragons, making youtube videos or spending time with one’s friends. Just because something is popular in the CC set and looks good (or so you think) on a college resume, doesn’t necessarily mean its a better use of a teenagers time. And more often than not, unless one has immersed onesself in the EC they damningly critique, chances are one hasn’t a clue what they are talking about. For example, I don’t play golf yet I could readily argue “hitting a little ball across a lawn is such a waste of time!” </p>

<p>Second, I think not all rubrics are created equal. I make them, I see them, I know. Some schools and teachers have the ability to see the big picture and ask themselves “what do I need my students to learn from this?” in which case each component of a rubric can reflect useful skills and abilities learned, it has meaning. Too often, rubrics are mindless pulled off the shelf, already made (to save the teacher time), and they are designed to make grading easier…not to be developmental. </p>

<p>Mindlessly following pointless, arbitrary rules is par for the course at times in even probably the best educational settings. Sadly pointless, arbitrary rules and tasks are more frequent in some classes and schools than others. </p>

<p>Rather than say “suck it up” I think we should turn it around and question why parents put up with it. I don’t want my children learning to fill in a rubric just to suck up to the teacher to get the grade. Especially if doing so stands in the way of real joy about learning and real learning. I’d much much much rather my children write a great essay, get an A- and spend time with their friends (because social deveopment is something we value), than spend another hour perfectionistically going over it to get the A+. One is useful, the other is pointless. </p>

<p>And I’m tired of teaching kids who seem more concerned about getting the ‘rules’ right and being perfect and obsessing over the GPA rather than getting the big picture and taking risks and showing mostly concern for LEARNING. These are not kids I would want making important decisions in the real world. It is very important to know which rules are VERY important and must be precisely followed, and which rules are pointless and not worth the energy. </p>

<p>Okay thanks for letting me rant.</p>

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<p>I think you have an extremely narrow mindset.</p>

<p>Although I never played table top games, I did MUD (multi-user dungeon; i.e., a text-based, online, multi-player version of D&D) prolifically in my middle and early high school years. While YOU may think it’s just “a fantasy card game,” a lot can be learned about it. Table top players learn all about creativity, probability, and playing with a team. As an online player, my writing, quick-thinking, and descriptive skills have increased greatly. And that’s not to mention what MUDding did for my vocabulary, computer literacy, or typing speed! I have also had the chance to interact with some of the brightest minds on the internet - believe it or not, these “fantasy card games” attract very high IQ men and women. Sure, not every MUD is a bastion of intelligence, but I can say I’d much rather meet a young man who played “fantasy card games” than a young man who mindlessly attended NHS meetings.</p>

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<p>Actually my guys also play a card game called Magic, The Gathering and I have come to see it as a teen version of the Army’s War College. You compile your resources, you are put into a situation and you must use your resources shrewdly. There are always trade offs. You never have unlimited assets. You must be nimble and deep thinking. </p>

<p>Thank you, Starbright and Applicanot. For my guys, there comes a limit of “manning up” as there is for any man (or woman). At some point it is NOT coming up with a little discipline – it is dealing with a situation that is . . .abusive. Truly. Ever see a large tiger kept in a small enclosure? The magnificent wild beast stalks up and down and eventually descends into neurotic behavior. </p>

<p>Honestly, I think the D&D and Magic gaming keeps these guys sane. Their minds soar. They embrace the challenges and hotly debate courses of action. They discuss minute details and master many rules and variations. I’ll take that over any version of “move the ball” athletics. </p>

<p>And there are times to revolt against oppressive systems. Whether it is Martin Luther nailing paperwork to the church door or a quartet of kids stealing the Stone of Destiny, there are times to say “What we are doing is not good enough” . There are times when we need to change what we are doing.</p>

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<p>This doesn’t answer your inquiry but it is somewhat related. I worry about the male leadership of this generation. Women outnumber men on most college campuses.</p>

<p>At our school’s NHS induction ceremony this week, only 11 of the 50 new members were boys. Selection to our NHS is not just a matter of GPA, although you have to have a 4.0 to be considered. It requires 10 teacher references about a student’s character, and demonstrated service and leadership (and that leadership can be in sports.)</p>

<p>As the mother of two boys, I’ve seen them struggle to find friends who have the same value system and who place the same importance on studying and involvement. It’s not cool for a guy to be smart.</p>

<p>Does anyone else see this pattern?</p>

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<p>I agree entirely. 100%. I think tabletop gaming has a lot more of value to offer than many of the athletic sports, especially for the bright minds. Obviously that’s my opinion only, but I’d be hard-pressed to consider table top gaming.</p>

<p>My friend used to play a game - I can’t remember what it’s called - in which not only was the game a table top game, but they built entire models. So not only did they experience the strategic, creative, mathematical, and critical thinking benefits of tabletop gaming, they also cultivated their design, construction, architecture, materials engineering, and collaboration skills. All of the players were highly-certified network engineers. Is that a waste of time hobby or EC?</p>

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<p>Oh, I’d say Bill Gates made being smart cool enough. But it’s not enough to be smart to be successful in the world of education (Gates, after all, dropped out of college). One has to be COMPLIANT. </p>

<p>So, it takes TEN teacher references to be selected into NHS? Wow, you lost about 90% of the teen guys I know right there. To ask for one reference or two is part of life. To ask for ten is exactly the kind of bureaucratic overkill that any bright guy would sneer at. To ask for ten seems like kissing up to further one’s own bragging rights. </p>

<p>Why aren’t there more guys in your school’s NHS? Because they are too proud and too much rigorous, independent thinkers to stoop to dealing with the rat maze to get to the certificate prize. Getting to level ten of whatever game gets them respect of their peers. Getting the NHS certificate does what? Makes Mom happy (perhaps) and gets one the respect of the oily vice principal? Some points for making Mom happy and negative points for having to deal with the Creepo member of the school staff!</p>

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<p>Some things I want to comment on…</p>

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<p>Yes it is. You’re thinking of a particular other group whom I won’t mention.</p>

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<p>NHS is silly. The idea that volunteering at a soup kitchen or a hospital (which is a business! That’s like volunteering at Taco Bell.) is honorable is a lie that we (as a society) perpetuate so we can get free labor out of teenagers. The lie is generally told to the AdComs though as opposed to teenagers themselves, who insist on it for admission to their selective colleges. The teenagers are in effect, giving themselves extra homework. </p>

<p>Anything along the lines of…

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<p>No. I can sit in my room an play Civ4 all day (my game of choice) but I’m not learning anything other than how to get better at Civ4. Fun distraction, doesn’t help me go out into the world and become productive. </p>

<p>For the record, I also don’t really see any value in sports either. Perhaps a fun activity, not relevant to being productive in the world.</p>

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<p>That’s how things work. Want it to stop? Give them all As. Not willing to do that? Deal with it. Appearing to have learned is a lot more useful than actually learning. The world’s not run by intellectuals. </p>

<p>I’d also like to make one comment, the only classes where I’ve ever had a strict rubric had female teachers, and one male teacher. For male teachers (other than the one), it was more of a “write about this topic.” Perhaps just a difference in how males and females think? Would females rather sacrifice creativity in favor of objectivity in grading, where as males would rather keep it creative but subjective? I would have thought it’d be the opposite, but I might have an unusual experience in this regard.</p>

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<p>Can I be the 34885th person (SHOCK! A GIRL!) agreeing that Dungeons and Dragons is more interesting to me than NHS? </p>

<p>In fact, let’s be honest. If I hadn’t grown up playing dungeons and dragons, I would have had no essay. My common app essay was about I realized that D&D/Magic/etc is way closer to reality than most people think- probably even more fun than Model United Nations- but it stimulates the same sort of thinking. (Is it really okay for you to hate the drow elves and kill them just because their morals aren’t of your alignment? How much of the fact that they’re dark skinned plays into their treatment from other elf races? Did you notice any colonialism? I played Age of Empires a lot, and more often than not, the goal is to overthrow another civilization, just as in history.) Etc. </p>

<p>My biggest (and probably most impressive) extra-curricular? </p>

<p>I work (staff) for the largest comics convention in my state. Planning, set up, publicizing in the media? It’s all up to us. We get people from around the world to attend our convention, and have continuously grown bigger. I work in PR right now, but have also worked the art auction (Set up, organization, bidding lists, and payments, as well as keeping money afterwards.) and manned a sales table under throbbing lights at the rave. (Have you ever tried to count out change for a five when all you have is a glowstick for light? XD) Not only that, I have to field questions about everything. Directions? I can do that. A guest (some quite famous) needs food/a drink/to go to the bathroom? I’ll cover it, and you can bet it comes with its perks. (Nothing more funny than being hit on during the Zombie beauty pagent when the pagent director needs another zombie last minute, and you end up being it.) </p>

<p>You can bet I mentioned all this to the adcoms, and two interviewers seemed quite interested- (One had dressed up as a Harry Potter character, and another wanted to know where I was inspired to write a novel.) I happen to still do text role-play with friends. It forces me to write daily, and I became a staff moderator for almost a full year- our website serves only about 200 folks, but I was in charge of making and maintaining rules. It was certainly fun.</p>

<p>Give me a guy who can wax philisophical on his “lv 25 rogue/halfling” any old day. At least I know he’s got a brain in his head. A DM would be better- They have to study world-building/city planning/human interaction (sociology) and create elaborate and complex plots that they may be forced to change due to the other players. Even comics nowadays are filled to the brim with pressing questions about humanity and culture. Look at The Watchmen. Look at Y the Last man, and see what happens in a post-patriarchal society when only one man in the world is alive.</p>

<p>Olymom, maybe you should compare rubrics to character sheets. All the “blanks” need to be met, but everything else is up to the player/writer. It is unfortunate, but I feel that part of the problem is the mere “boys will be boys” mentality. They’re clearly smart, but often not told so. Just say it. Point out how much they really do- introduce them to real-world topics that D&D covers. History of warfare. Religious history. Writing, politics, international relations, economics, sociology, philosophy of morality… and so on. I’ve been doing this all my life, and people wonder why I know so much random information. You can come off really intelligent if you know how to apply Plato or Aristotle or sun Tzu’s philosophies to life.</p>

<p>Put it in the contex of just “improving” the game if you have to. Sometimes, I think kids in general just overlook the rubrics, or mess up on meeting them. That may require them to just check it off as they go.</p>

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<p>Lots of NHS bashers on CC. It’s different at every school. At our school, NHS organizes the blood drives and the food bank drive and much more. It is truly an honor and the kids work toward it from the time they enter the school. Geeks, jocks, writers, artists, long-haired musicians.</p>

<p>Oh, and the five junior boys selected are all expert gamers and play online with each other frequently. (I can’t speak for the six seniors.)</p>

<p>It’s not mutually exclusive.</p>

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<p>Any of the innovative teaching that my kids experienced came from a few, usually young, teachers rather than from administration, or “top-down” ideas. One junior English teacher gave a lot of choices for students when it came to projects-- videos or student produced plays or even fund raising charity projects if they could be related to the theme of the unit. My son and his friends loved her class- they were always running around doing something related to their English projects that year, and some very good work came from it. He and a buddy made a very professional video that was later shown school-wide.</p>

<p>One of the physical science teachers had an amazing hands-on curriculum that students really looked forward to. His course was legendary- the students created electric cars, built egg cages to be dropped from buildings, experimented with fire, made paper balloons to fly over campus, created chemical explosions and their own Rube-Goldberg projects. No boredom, ever. </p>

<pre><code>My kids were lucky that they had some very creative and gifted teachers and an administration that (usually) supported them. But I think the teachers are the key to turning a ho-hum curriculum into something that will interest bright students. If you could enlist the support of a couple of your school’s more creative teachers in creating a more engaging curriculum, you might be able to bring the administration along.
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<p>I’m not bashing it. Most of my friends are in NHS. I just don’t think it’s particularly special to be in NHS (you can organize blood drives and food bank drives without it) and I decided it wasn’t worth my time. I was right for myself. I volunteer on things I care about, and I have good grades. There’s not really anything different about it- and I daresay I did more things without joining NHS. It’s not like joining an academic society in college, where you’ll have connections and networking. It just says you have the grades, and volunteer, and have “leadership” experience. I got all those elsewhere.</p>

<p>You can do it if you want, but if you don’t qualify because you don’t have enough recommendations, just go do something else. Honestly, it puzzled my friend, who was president of NHS and Val, but I did just fine without it.</p>

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<p>My son would definitely want me to defend Magic: The Gathering here. It certainly wasn’t incompatible with extensive ECs, stellar grades, and real leadership in his case, although at times his father got ****ed-off about it. (I still don’t get how it’s played, or what’s fun about it. I should probably ask him again; his descriptive powers and editorial instincts may be better developed now, so he could explain it to me in the time I have available to listen.) He STILL plays it some, or at least talks about it. His current housemate, a senior on his way to a PhD program in math next year, is still a huge fan and player.</p>

<p>Let me rant a little, as I do on all of these threads: If boys are so effing oppressed, why do they still wind up running the world? As they do. I have the same problem with people who whine about girls and Reviving Ophelia – those “damaged” 13-year-old girls are taking down names and kicking butts by the time they are 20. </p>

<p>Kids’ development lurches along by fits and starts; not everything comes together at the same time. That’s the breaks. I seriously doubt any of Olymom’s D&D players is going to be so traumatized by his B-s that he fails to get appropriate training and to set lofty goals for himself in life.</p>

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<p>The problem with video games or comic books isn’t that you can’t learn anyhting from them, or that they’re the “wrong” way to relax, but that there is no face-to-face personal interaction. That’s what makes extracurricular activities like sports, clubs, drama, music, volunteering, and the like more valuable–not only do you learn about something specific but you develop people skills – something many teenage boys sorely need. I’d go so far as to say that many boys love video games and online activity precisely BECAUSE they are too immature to deal with personal contact in so many different venues, whether its meeting girls, trying out for a sports team, or interviewing someone for the school paper. </p>

<p>I’ve found that one thing that (surprisingly to me at least) generally energize’s S’s friends in school: humor. Most learning is deadly serious and it seems as if the teachers who can leaven the lessons with a yuk now and then do a better job, in whatever subject, of keeping the boys engaged. Can teachers learn how to use the tool of humor? you tell me. </p>

<p>Second thing that seems to work for them is physical activity. A lot of guys feel really tied down sitiing in a classr for 45 minutes, let alone the double periods some schools make kids take. Some boys will regularly need a competitive sports outlet, others a noncompetitive one, and wothers will simply need to move around more-- say ten minute breaks between classes once in a while rather than three minutes. </p>

<p>And because boys do, on the whole, mature more slowly than the girls, there needs to be a LOT more counseling in schools about post-HS options. Help the boys really figure out if college is what they want, and how to get there even if they’re not the top students. In this vein, I think a lot of boys --especially the C students–really think that college is just more of the same, like high school. They have a preconceived notion that there’s nothing there for them but the same thing that was in HS, only with drinking. Soemtimes that is true, but a lot of times not. Most high schools dont do enough to correct this impression that so many boys have, f they do anything about it at all. If boys want some other type of training – to be a landscape gardener or a rock musician or an auto mechanic – schools need to address that seriously, either through community college courses, vocational training, internships, or whatever. I sometimes wonder why schools never give those type of vocational aptitude tests to keds and talk to them about that stuff. It might help a lot. Its quite easy to become disengaged when the boy sees no connection between his school and his future life. </p>

<p>All this stuff goes for girls too, but they do mature a bit quicker than boys, so I think the boys need it more.</p>

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<p>I’m a believe of “The patriarchy hurts men too!”. Honestly, the society we live in rewards boys and men even if they underperform to their potential. </p>

<p>More girls are graduating college with higher GPAs across the board, but:</p>

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<ul>
<li>[Sexism</a> at Work: Young Women, Newsweek, and Gender - Newsweek.com](<a href=“http://www.newsweek.com/id/235220]Sexism”>Young Women, Newsweek, and Sexism)</li>
</ul>

<p>I don’t believe the “education system” is designed for girls. The liberal arts system was originally created by men, for men. All we did was play harder at a game not meant for us. It drives me nuts to know I go out of my way to work hard to keep up with “the boys” but despite the fact that I’ve often done/accomplished/done better than some guys, I’ll be held to a different standard. We’re trying to take our opportunities, and run with them, but guys don’t put forth extra effort (they didn’t used to need to at all!), and they STILL get to make more money, have better payraises, ask for raises without being considered “rude” or a “b#@ch!” and have more jobs in power. </p>

<p>I’ve even had a few teachers act outright sexist towards me and other girls, hinting that it’s our fault there’s a recession because we’re taking the jobs and making less- when we shouldn’t be in work but “in labor” (har har.)</p>

<p>Men aren’t being oppressed by anyone but themselves, and the attitude that “boys will be boys” and “schools are meant for girls”. Please. You think Plato was told that? No.</p>

<p>The biggest difference now is that they’re directly competing with girls, and we’ve been told how important it is for us to do well to be able to “match up” all our lives. It’s been my experience that if you don’t tell someone they need to work hard, and they still get more money, they just don’t work as hard. Girls have been told to work hard, or they won’t even get half of what men make.</p>

<p>$.10</p>

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<p>Honestly, people need to stop complaining about how the US school system has failed their precious sons or the male gender as a whole. Accept that your sons and those other boys have failed the US school system.</p>

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<p>“I don’t believe the “education system” is designed for girls. The liberal arts system was originally created by men, for men. All we did was play harder at a game not meant for us.”</p>

<p>If you’re trying to claim that there is a bias towards males in school, you have a baseless argument. If you’re just trying to claim there is no bias towards either gender, then I agree. </p>

<p>As for the pay, which by the way is completely irrelevant to the thread, females tend to focus less on money, take jobs which pay less but have other benefits. Females tend to major in subjects like Literature and other humanities which have very low salaries, as opposed to engineering, and hard sciences which have high salaries. Females tend to be less competitive in the workplace. Males more often actively seek to get promotions, change jobs to get a better position/more pay, etc than females do. Males more often tend to have the dominant “alpha dog” sort of personality which makes them better leaders than people who aren’t of that sort of personality.</p>