<p>“Their strength is in technical/science/engineering majors.”</p>
<p>Clearly so, since there aren’t any Mudd grads in any other majors! ;)</p>
<p>IIRC, Mudd does require you major in something they offer. 
Second majors and minors at other schools are permissible (and I recall from the folks S1 met that it’s pretty common). Our tour guide was a CS major at Mudd and was getting a second major in film at Scripps. He was no dummy. ;)</p>
<p>Hi, Mudder’s Mother!!!</p>
<p>You can major in something off-campus but you must have an on-campus minor, which is the only time they permit minors. For example someone just graduated with a neuroscience major from Pomona and a minor in biology.</p>
<p>[Off-Campus</a> Major](<a href=“http://www.hmc.edu/academicsclinicresearch/majors/offcampusmajor.html]Off-Campus”>http://www.hmc.edu/academicsclinicresearch/majors/offcampusmajor.html)</p>
<p>Wow, it’s so nice to have all these different posts! Suin, I wanted to thank you so much for giving us the perspective of someone who’s actually attended one of the Claremont Consortium colleges. You know how things really work, and I appreciate your sharing w/ us. Thanks for explaining very clearly the interplay between HM and Pomona re: how they share classes. .</p>
<p>mazewanderer, thanks for the input about in-class CS classes vs. on-line CS classes. It makes sense. Too bad we don’t live near Johns Hopkins! </p>
<p>azalia, thx also for your inpput aoubt EPGY’s on line Java class, and also for confirming that Pomona students do take HM CS classes.</p>
<p>busdriver11, thx for info about Carnegie Mellon. I’ve read wonderful things about Carnegie. I just am now sure it’s within my son’s geographic range. But thanks for letting me know! I think Pitzer must be a good college, based on what others here have said and also that it’s rated by U.S. News & World Report. Do try to get a copy of that 2009 article b/c it gives more info about each college that is rated. I guess the 2010 copy comes out about the same time of the year (Sept)?</p>
<p>I did look at that, thanks donuthead. My kid would probably be lucky to get in to a school of that caliber, but it’s worth the try! Actually, about 10% of his school’s graduating class is going to be attending one of the Pomona colleges, so that’s a pretty big crowd.</p>
<p>"If he does well enough in the CS AP test, he could test out of and receive credit for a couple of lower level CS classes. "</p>
<p>-Not a good idea at all. My very first CS class at college was a computer language that I have used for many years as professional. I never had any “lower level CS classes”. I have no idea what they are. Every single CS class was important and applicable to my future proffession. The same as pre-meds are not allowed to skip the first Bio at college despite of “5” in AP Bio. The same idea.</p>
<p>“I think it does matter, especially when looking for a first job after grad.”</p>
<ul>
<li>I got my first Computer Programming job after CC at the very bad economic time (much worse than now) in the most depressed area of the country.</li>
</ul>
<p>azalia, it’s nice to hear that a student can do well on the AP CS exam by taking the EPGY on-line class. My son hasn’t created programs already, like some of the amazing kids of others who have posted here. He does search for free on-line tutorials re: C++. I wanted to ask how much did your son know before he took the EPGY class, b/c he may have been much more advanced when he starting taking the EPGY class than my son, which may be a factor in his doing well on the AP CS exam. If you prefer to send me a PM, b/c of privacy issues, I understand and would very much appreciate it! </p>
<p>Also, MiamiDAP, I agree w/ you in the sense that for most of the AP science exams and AP math exams, as well as the AP CS exam (if he takes it, which is a BIG if), we would think very carefully before recommending to our son to skip a lower level college class b/c of AP credit. At this point, the main reason for taking different AP exams for him would be to show (prospective colleges) that he is taking challenging classes and doing well on tests that test the material.</p>
<p>busdriver11, good luck! I hope your kid gets into Pitzer! It’s interesting that such a large % of grads from his school attends the Claremont colleges. Are you in CA?</p>
<p>CountingDown, thanks for the tip about USACO! A couple days ago, I mentioned it to GeekSon, who will be going to Mudd after a gap year, and now I can’t peel him away.</p>
<p>
In my son’s case, it was first me (a professional programmer), then developing a cheesy web page at about age 9, then a week of ID Tech Camp, then several CC classes, then writing a program for a teacher, and now USACO, with tons of reading and fiddling around throughout. Some kids are just born to do this. Which does NOT mean that other kids can’t do it just as well!</p>
<p>
According to my research, there IS a hiring bias against a limited LAC for a CS major. I looked for BA vs BS and found some pretty strong opinions against a BA. I am a programmer (business, not the cool CS), and I was pretty unhappy when I looked over the classes at my son’s favorite LAC; in order to get the honors CS degree, he would have to take literally EVERY CS class the school offered; if one area in particular interested him, he’d have to do it with independent study. I agree that a limited BA really doesn’t teach what one should know, and I think it would hurt in getting the first job and maybe even in knowledge for a few years. OTOH, I don’t think a BA would hurt at all to get into grad school, but I don’t really know. There is a lot of good in CS classes, although many programmers don’t have CS majors. Obviously there’s a necessity of learning on one’s own as the industry changes so quickly, but the foundation is very valuable.</p>
<p>
There are always anecdotes of people who are employed in the industry from different backgrounds but there’s certainly a difference between the average CS grad from, for example, CMU, UCSD, HM, Stanford, UCB, CalTech, MIT, etc. and the average CS grad from a non-selective college with a non-rigorous program and many employers recognize this difference and will hire new grads from one place versus the other. This doesn’t mean the others won’t end up with a job in the industry but they might not end up at some of the top companies as a new grad (although they might once they have more experience under their belt). As with most things there are always some exceptions to the rule but there’s certainly a difference between a 4 year CS program at one of the top schools versus the other end of the spectrum. I don’t think the advice that ‘for CS what school you go to doesn’t matter’ is prudent.</p>
<p>Slightly OT, but going back a few pages. At the Claremont Colleges, Scripps, Claremont McKenna, and Pitzer partner in science – the Joint Science Program is where all the science majors from those 3 take classes. So for Bio, Chem, Physics, etc, student at any of those 3 colleges would be taking classes together.</p>
<p>Geekmom, USACO is one of those things that Mudd likes to see – it is their kind of programming. Being able to teach oneself this kind of stuff is also a VERY helpful skill in college. I will dig back in my posts and find some of the threads on math books –
there were some good CS ones listed, too.</p>
<p>USACO is how S1 figured out that the science project he did in 7th grade (and took three computers running for days on end) could have been done using Djykstra’s algorithm. At least his work made it clear to the judges that it was original…</p>
<p>CountingDown, ::waves:: glad to see you’re still around!</p>
<p>GeekMom, congrats to your future Mudder!</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>No, donuthead, not from CA, a strong private school in WA. Which makes it kind of odd with such large numbers. Though it is a great credit to the Pomona schools to draw many kids that might otherwise have been ivy bound.</p>
<p>Another positive thing about getting AP test credit is the possibility that he may decide not to major in CS. My son changed his major, still got the credits. It is nice to either knock off a semester of classes with testing, or at least have more choices. Good to at least have the option.</p>
<p>CountingDown, I also would love to get the names/authors of the math books and CS books! I told my son about USACO, he’s been busy w/ studies (last 2 weeks of school). But I’m sure he will love it in the summer! Such a great tip!</p>
<p>busdriver11, good point about getting credit from AP exam in case my son changes his major. I didn’t think about that. Thanks! </p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad, in line w/ what you are saying about employers looking at how strong the CS program is in a college, do you think that employers would consider whether a Pomona College student has taken Harvey Mudd CS classes as a significant factor (assuming the student did well in his CS classes)?</p>
<p>my3girls, does the Joint Science Program involve Pomona College too?</p>
<p>^^ It’d depend on the employer but if they’re not that familiar with the particular CS program at Pomona (or wherever) they’d probably look at the specific program at the college to be more familiar with its CS program and weigh that against the programs and reputations of the colleges of other applicants. The advantage of someone going to Pomona, as well as a number of the others mentioned, is that there’s already some vetting that’s been done - i.e. anyone accepted to them already has something on the ball and some accomplishments. If they took a lot of CS classes at HM and ended up taking a pretty complete suite of CS/math/GEs (CS is more than just learning a language and writing programs), then it seems that it’d be a positive.</p>
<p>One other thing to do if you can find the info on the college’s website is to see which employers recruit there and what positions they’re recruiting for. That can tell you something about the prospects (not everything, but something). If you find companies like Microsoft, Google, Cisco, Northrup Grumman, IBM, Lockheed, and other technology companies recruiting for software engineers there then it’s a good sign. If not then it raises questions.</p>
<p>ucsd<em>ucla</em>dad, Thanks for your opinion. I appreciate your views looking through the eyes of an employer. And yes, good idea, to look at what companies are recruiting at that college. Thanks again!</p>
<p>Joint Science is funded by those three schools since by themselves they don’t have enough students to need their own individual departments. Pomona is larger and therefore has its own science departments (like Mudd), though I’m sure Pomona students can take Joint Science offered classes as they are all part of the Consortium.</p>
<p>Hi, I just stumbled across this thread, and thought I’d clarify some of the info posted here. Pomona has had a CS major for a long time, but we formed a separate CS department only 5 years ago (we were joint with Math). We currently have 4 faculty and 10-15 majors graduating each year. Our intro level courses are completely independent of Harvey Mudd, though after our first three courses, students are at roughly the same place as HMC students after their first three. We have four core courses required for a major that match 4 of the 5 core courses at HMC. Students can take these courses at either school, depending on what is most convenient. This year I taught our core Principles of Programming Languages course both semesters, and it wasn’t taught at all at HMC, so all their students came down here for the course this year. Our students take a lot of courses at HMC as well. Because HMC has a bigger CS faculty (and number of majors), more electives are taught up there, for example. The departments at HMC & Pomona generally get together about once a semester to discuss common issues and we carefully coordinate course offerings.</p>
<p>Students from the other Claremont Colleges can choose to major in CS at either Pomona or HMC. We probably get more of these than HMC. While the cultures are different at Pomona and HMC, the student quality is roughly the same. Students at HMC tend to be more focused on science and technology, while our students tend to have broader interests. For example, we often get double majors with linguistics, cognitive science, and media studies, as well as with the sciences. Every student at HMC participates in the CS clinic, which involves a team working on an industry problem, while our students can choose to do a 2 semester research thesis (which is often similar to a Master’s thesis), participate in the HMC clinic, or do a smaller (half-course) senior project that involves some original research or implementing a large project.</p>
<p>The 5 colleges share many events. For example, HMC hosts a science and technology employment/career fair every February, but our students are invited to participate. Students at both schools get great jobs and get into excellent grad schools. CS colloquia alternate between Pomona and CS every Thursday. Parties on the weekends rotate among the colleges. Probably the main reason to choose one over the other is how broad they want to be (and their friends to be) and which culture they feel more comfortable with (and you have to visit to experience the cultures).</p>
<p>Hope that’s not too much of an advertisement, but I thought I could shed some light on some of the questions raised here. Send e-mail to any of the CS faculty at Pomona if you wish more info. While I don’t want to post my e-mail address here because of spam, my initials are kb, so I’m easy to find if you look at our web site.</p>
<p>Pomona CS Prof, thanks so much for your message. I appreciate the information. You certainly confirm what I’ve heard about Pomona College professors, that they care about their students and are accessible!</p>