<p>Hey, I have a few questions about Computer Science at Pomona College: I just got into UC Berkeley, which has one of the number one CS programs in the country, but I feel like I'd thrive better at a liberal arts environment like Pomona- would you say that the program would be of comparable quality to the one at Berkeley? Would it be easy to double major (maybe something in the humanities if not Linguistics or Cog Sci)? I do not have a very strong math background at the moment, if I was considering CS should I try to get up to Linear Algebra as soon as possible? Thanks!</p>
<p>In my personal opinion, Pomona can’t compete with UCB in terms of CS.
There are plenty liberal arts ppl at berkeley, no worries.</p>
<p>It really depends on what you want. They’re completely different experiences. If you’re going purely for rankings or reputation, sure, UCB is what you want. However, let me make the case for Pomona, and why I picked Pomona over somewhere like UCB (I was recently accepted to UCB as well).</p>
<p>First of all, it’s primarily UCB’s graduate CS and undergrad EECS departments that are rated so highly. If you’re more interested in the theoretical side of CS, Pomona be just as good, especially because Pomona’s math department is so good (for myself, I intend to be a CS and math double major).</p>
<p>Secondly, Pomona’s CS department is very closely tied to Harvey Mudd’s CS program, which is also ranked very highly (and in many ways is more rigorous than UCB - I don’t know any students other than Caltech or MIT students that work as hard as Mudders, in general). It’s likely that you’ll take at least one class at Harvey Mudd.</p>
<p>Thirdly, Pomona has a completely different environment than UCB, which may or may not be for you. You will attend small classes and get to know your professors personally (and NONE are taught by TAs or grad students, just dedicated professors there to teach, not research). The school itself is smaller, and the student body (in general) is more “competitive” than UCB’s. You’ll also likely have more interactions with students and people outside of your major/area of interest, as there will be broader educational requirements (which also may or may not be a “plus” for you).</p>
<p>Fourthly, the resources and personal attention available to you at Pomona are going to be far greater than those at Berkeley. As I mentioned before, the professors are there to teach, not research (unlike many instructors at a research university like Berkeley). Additionally, because Pomona is so wealthy, you’ll have research opportunities available to you from your freshman year.</p>
<p>To recap/expand, I picked Pomona for several reasons:</p>
<ol>
<li> Small LAC environment (meaning personal attention, small classes, and resources available to me). And one of the best LACs, at that.</li>
<li> The educational requirements are broader. I like learning for learning’s sake (and this is the general culture at Pomona; I have a friend at Berkeley, and many students are there for a practical education in something like engineering). I will have time to specialize my particular interests in grad school.</li>
<li> You can attend UCB/others for grad school, you can’t do the same at Pomona.</li>
<li> The students/people are AMAZING. They’re the smartest people I’ve met, and the student body is very diverse (in terms of interests). I initially loved Harvey Mudd, but I preferred Pomona in the end because Mudd’s student body is too homogeneous (so focused on science), which just wasn’t my thing.</li>
</ol>
<p>Overall, Pomona will provide me with a fantastic education as well as one of the best experiences of my life.</p>
<p>UC Berkeley is just about the polar opposite of Pomona (as a school). Because both schools have great reputations among employers/grad schools, decide which school you like better without the reputation factor.</p>
<p>Also, to address your other specific concerns: yes, the program is definitely of comparable quality (there’s a reason why places like Google hire Pomona grads), for the reasons I said before; as at most institutions, it won’t be “easy” to double major (but, no, it won’t be prohibitively hard); if you are new to CS, you’ll be eased into the program wherever you go - don’t worry about getting lots of pre-reqs out of the way right now.</p>
<p>
I just want to clarify that Pomona students are not more competitive in the “competing with one another” sense.</p>
<p>Yeah, the collaborative environment of Pomona is another one of the reasons I like it so much.</p>
<p>I merely meant that, at least on paper, Pomona students, in general, are more “intelligent” than their Berkeley counterparts. Of course, they’re both very competitive schools. But at least anecdotally, I’ve heard my friend at Berkeley describe some students there as “not very bright,” whereas I’ve never heard Pomona/other 5C students say the same for a Pomona student. For whatever that’s worth.</p>
<p>To the credit of UC Berkeley, it is a state school and is therefore somewhat beholden to CA residents, meaning that it tries to make itself as it accessible possibly can (whether it succeeds at this is debatable). Berkeley, as a public school, has to be less selective than a smaller private school. What I mean is that selectivity says nothing of academic quality.
With that said, I have heard comments about students at Cal similar to what zrathustra described, and I think it says more about is the campus culture than anything else. I have no problem with sharing a school with kids who are “not that bright,” but Pomona’s culture is more intellectual than the culture at Cal. This is another advantage to the environment of a liberal arts school (if you’re into that at least).
What I’m saying was probably already implied, but I felt it needed to be expanded. If both programs were of similar quality then I’d choose Pomona in a heart-beat.
I’m going to the admit day tomorrow and I’m going to ask around about the program and compare the two (I’m already quite familiar with the programs at Cal).</p>
<p>The quality of the education you’ll receive at Pomona will not be determined by the department you’re affiliated with, so I would not base your decision on its reputation.</p>
<p>You’ll receive great educations at both schools, so pick the school that has the best “fit” for you. You’ll be happiest that way, as there are really intangible differences between the quality of education that you might receive, but the way each institution gives that education will be completely different, and you may have a strong preference for one over the other.</p>
<p>zrathustra makes a lot of good points, and I can support most of them from experience. Pomona has a great CS department - I’m currently a major, in fact, and I came with literally no experience and only took Intro because I was curious. The faculty are great, and the close ties with Harvey Mudd allow for some incredible opportunities for senior majors.</p>
<p>A double major isn’t going to be “easy” anywhere, but if you come in with some idea of what you want to do, and you plan out how you’re going to do it, you will have no trouble. As far as math, the CS major requires calculus and linear algebra, but you by no means have to worry about doing them ASAP.</p>
<p>I’ve got a question about CS at Pomona. Just read the article in the NY Times by the President of Harvey Mudd- <a href=“Giving Women the Access Code - The New York Times”>Giving Women the Access Code - The New York Times;
<p>The CS Sequence there starting with CS 5 sounded great, especially for women. My D is seriously considering Pomona, and would like to know first - is it possible to take the CS intro sequence at HM if you’re a Pomona student - and second - are there many women CS majors at Pomona?</p>
<p>Oh also wondering the same thing for math - female math majors at Pomona?</p>
<p>There are positively loads of female math majors at Pomona College. Furthermore, a fair number of the professors are female as well. I’m not sure that I can say the same for female CS majors. However, this fact can mostly be attributed to the field and less so to the college department. That said, especially in the intro CS sequences, at least a third of my classmates were girls. Also, I know a female CS major who is a sophomore and will be working at GOOGLE next semester through their BOLD initiative so opportunities abound.</p>
<p>I’m not sure. I doubt that it’s recommended, though. Your daughter won’t want to miss out on getting thoroughly acquainted with the Pomona CS faculty and her fellow CS majors. I recommend contacting one of the CS faculty; they’re very helpful with this sort of thing ([Pomona</a> College - Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.pomona.edu/personalities.html]Pomona”>http://www.cs.pomona.edu/personalities.html)).</p>
<p>Because they’re pre-requisites for almost every other CS course at Pomona or Mudd, they are going to be very similar in what topics are discussed in each course. The main difference is that Pomona’s class is primarily taught in Java, whereas CS 5 primarily uses Python. Here are the two course descriptions: HMC ([HMC</a> CS: Course Descriptions](<a href=“CS Course Descriptions | Computer Science | Harvey Mudd College”>CS Course Descriptions | Computer Science | Harvey Mudd College)) and Pomona ([Pomona</a> College - Computer Science](<a href=“http://www.cs.pomona.edu/courses.html#CS51]Pomona”>http://www.cs.pomona.edu/courses.html#CS51)).</p>
<p>As for the number of women CS majors at Pomona, I have no information, but I’d guess it’s no worse or better than anywhere else.</p>
<p>For math majors, I would assume that there is a relatively even divide (at least more so than CS) between men and women. Math is the second most popular major at Pomona, and the department is very strong. My brother is an Econ major, and is now also a math minor (and considered a math double major for a period) due to how much he enjoyed his math courses (which he’s described as his most difficult). I’ve also heard about similar stories from his friends. I was quite surprised by the number of math majors, math/other double majors, and math minors on campus.</p>
<p>From a current CS student at Pomona, Pomona students absolutely can choose to take the intro sequence at Mudd. Several of my friends did CS 5 then 60 at Mudd this year. This is a great way to learn a lot about CS in two courses. However, scheduling would be a little harder when you branch out for reasons that are a little complicated to explicate here, and the Pomona intro courses are on the list of requirements for the CS major. I think it’s very unlikely that this would prevent you from getting a major (the department is very reasonable), but it’s probably not the best idea to go in planning to break the rules. I liked our intro sequence, by the way!</p>
<p>The gender ratio is pretty off among CS majors in upper division, but this seems to be changing pretty rapidly, based on people currently in the intro classes.</p>
<p>Another cs major, taking the intro sequence at Pomona now; love it, and learning a lot while getting to know the department. That being said, my friend took the sequence at Harvey mudd, both are just prerequisites for advanced classes, doesn’t really matter which you choose</p>
<p>I’ve heard varying answers on this, but can you skip CS 51 (or 5 at Mudd) if you have a 5 on the AP Comp Sci test?</p>
<p>I’m a homeschooled student, but took Harvard’s intro course, CS50, through the Harvard Extension school (same lectures, problem sets, office hours, resources, etc, as the actual Harvard course), and then self-studied for the AP test. I’m sure a lot of the intro course at Pomona or Mudd would be review for me (I’ve also held a programming internship at a top video game developer for a year), but how much would I miss? I know that, for example, Mudd’s course covers logical programming, which is an area I’ve never really covered.</p>
<p>Much obliged.</p>
<p>CS 51 is just basic java with an introduction to recursion. There’s no published policy allowing you to skip it with no approval, but if you ask they’ll absolutely let you. Some people skip it based on nothing but their personal hobbyist experience, so you’re golden.</p>
<p>Depending on the nature of your work (do you know c++? do you remember or can you determine big O storage space and run time for different operations on various data structures?), it might be a good idea to try to skip 62 as well, though they don’t regularly let students do that.</p>
<p>Based on the course descriptions of 62, I shouldn’t skip it. I worked on frontend web applications for the developers using PHP and SQL. I have some experience in C (the Harvard course was taught primarily in C, I had to teach myself the Java required for the AP test), and Objective C, but my knowledge of C++ is unfortunately minuscule.</p>
<p>Mudd CS major here. CS is a joint department and I’ve taken about half my upper div classes at Pomona.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Re the different intro sequences - It’s ok to take Mudd’s intro sequence and be a Pomona major, a few Scrippsies and Pitzer students do that. Less common for Pomona students b/c they don’t walk to walk up to Mudd. I would recommend the Mudd intro sequence b/c the intro class is truly geared at newbies, it’s a broad survey of the discipline, and there’s a HUGE support network e.g. tutoring hours every night.</p></li>
<li><p>Mudd/Pomona simply do not offer as many courses as Berkeley. Period. The courses are primarily academic with little focus on software engineering. That means no course about writing iphone apps, no course about javascript, etc. Mudd supplements this with summer research and clinic. Pomona does have summer research opportunities but that’s somewhat limited (mostly upperclassmen). </p></li>
<li><p>That said, Mudd/Pomona offer incredible opportunities for undergrads. Berkeley’s classes are large, taught by TAs etc. Mudd/Pomona are welcoming to new students, while Berkeley has had problems with diversity (particularly bc the classes are so large) Additionally, there is a real community of CS majors and everybody gets to know each other, which is really nice bc you work on classes together.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I appreciate the discussion on this and will share it with my daughter. Not sure which sequence she’ll ultimately take… but gives her something to think about.</p>