“if we are indeed a nation divided philosophically, is the path forward really an all-out frontal war of “right vs wrong” or some mid-ground requiring sacrifice on both sides and a decision that the ultimate long term solution lies further out in the future?”
I think that is a valid and important question in a lot of areas but how can that be applied to racism? I’d argue it can’t because where is the mid-ground on the issue?
That’s very depressing and sad to hear, @alh, and it enforces the opinion I expressed above in #17.
Yes, you’re right re: racism. But I’d think you’d agree that no one likes to be told that what they’ve believed in for most of their life is evil, the example being confederate figures representing some semblance of admirable characteristics (along with reprehensible ones).
Wouldn’t a mid-ground position be something along on the lines of, ok the statues can stay, but please let the message be that it is kept because of the good things and not the bad. Everyone is human; no one is perfect. How one rises above one’s imperfections is part of how one shows one’s character.
Even my 92 year old friend, and 88 year old friend, whose family backgrounds epitomize the “old south” say the statues can’t stay. They are extremely proud of their grandchildrens’ efforts toward the removal of the statues.
Watching young parents bringing their children, on a sort of pilgrimage to the site, the day after a statue is removed is very moving to me. There is some good history being made around here lately. I really try to concentrate on that.
When you read about the history and context of when and why most of those statutes were erected, what are the “good things”? Sincerely interested in knowing.
I am not aware of a statue in a public space that was not erected for intimidation purposes. I am always happy to be corrected. I know the history of the statues we are taking down where I live now and the ones coming down in my childhood home town.
Cemeteries, especially private family ones, are a diffent story. imho
Sorry, I can’t elucidate any point due to my ignorance of the situation. I am not of the belief that some compromise situation can’t be found but I have been wrong before. I have a family story that involves national discrimination against those with my background but things have moved on. At least there is hope for full reconciliation. For us here, its too polarized for me to feel the same way.
A lot of the monuments from the 20s and 30s were funded either directly or indirectly by the KKK. Just pick one and start researching. You might want to research local lynchings during the same years. So far this has been an eye opening exercise for me.
chippedtoof: A writer named Brendan Wolfe has a blog. You can search brendan wolfe lee monument to read an interesting analysis. It looks at history from a variety of angles.
Then, it feels like the path needs to be followed. I have no problem with that. The issue I’m having is that I don’t see how there’s reconciliation here… so we’re just going to have to grin and bear the turmoil. A new president is not going to be able to stop this now.
[Edit: thanks @alh will take a look. Appreciate the help ]
It is not like most black* people can compromise on being black* (even if they wanted to), especially when such identity is often based on others’ perception without regard to self-identification.
Which goes without saying. If the whole point of the confrontation is racist in nature, then there is little chance for reconciliation. What I was trying to say is that if there are other elements which are involved, then perhaps there is room. Frankly, it sounds like I’m barking up the wrong tree and this is a pure hate battle.
The communities voted to take down the statues so the majority is in agreement. The task at hand is to mend fences, but if the differences are purely focused on racial antagonism and the contrarian sub-group is not small, then there is a long road ahead.
How about a monument for the pitiful Union P.O.W.s who died under horrendous conditions at the Confederate prison at Anderson, SC?
And the ONLY monument to a Revolutionary War hero (besides G. Washington) in the southern states that I am familiar with is the statute of Nathaniel Greene in Greensboro NC.
I’ve posted this elsewhere, but I’ll repeat the point: there are (at least) two kinds of confederal monuments. One is to leaders, like Lee, Davis, generals, etc., and one is the generic monument to local people who fought/died in the Civil War. Many towns in the South (including my hometown) have the second type: it depicts a generic soldier. It is essentially the same as a WWI monument. To me, that’s very different from a statue of Robert E. Lee.
As for the flag, if it’s a symbol of Southern pride, it’s only a symbol of white Southern pride. I think one of the main reasons it’s flown is simply to mess with “Yankees” and “liberals” who won’t like it. It may be that’s what’s going on with these flyers, too–I doubt if they are the work of the KKK; more likely a couple of jerks who think it’s “funny.”
When I was growing up in Ohio, I never saw any evidence of the KKK in the state. I’m sure there must have been a few of them around, but not in enough numbers to make an impression. I’ve lived in about half-a-dozen states, and Ohio was among the least racist of any of them. Ironically, New York and California, where I live now, are both the most diverse and most racially-charged states I’ve lived in.
@LakeWashington --the entire Andersonville prison site is a memorial to prisoners of war. The grim history of the prison is told in a very sobering fashion through stories and photos in an excellent museum . Included are POWs from other wars also in the museum.
When you see the walls, the camps and the huge cemetery nearby it is a deep reflection on mans inhumanity to man.
*You may well ask: “Why direct action? Why sit ins, marches and so forth? Isn’t negotiation a better path?” You are quite right in calling for negotiation. Indeed, this is the very purpose of direct action. Nonviolent direct action seeks to create such a crisis and foster such a tension that a community which has constantly refused to negotiate is forced to confront the issue. It seeks so to dramatize the issue that it can no longer be ignored. My citing the creation of tension as part of the work of the nonviolent resister may sound rather shocking. But I must confess that I am not afraid of the word “tension.” I have earnestly opposed violent tension, but there is a type of constructive, nonviolent tension which is necessary for growth…
Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”
We have waited for more than 340 years for our constitutional and God given rights.*
-Martin Luther King, Jr., “Letter from Birmingham Jail”
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