Conflict Between Interest and Academics

Colleges & Universities A-Z Massachusetts Institute of Technology
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<p>Hello!</p>

<pre><code> I currently have a problem in my "four year plan" for high school. I am a freshman, and as I was looking into my junior and senior years, I realized that I will not be able to take all the AP courses and electives that I wish to take. Here is my future schedule.
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<p>Junior Year: AP Language and Composition
Symphonic Band
Varsity Jazz Band
Journalism
Honors Chemistry
AP Environmental Science
AP Calc A/B
Academic Decathlon
AP Spanish 3
AP US History
AP Psychology</p>

<p>Summer In Between: Microbiology (weighted)</p>

<p>Senior Year: AP Literature and Composition
Symphonic Band
Varsity Jazz Band
Journalism
AP Physics
AP Statistics
AP Calc B/C
Academic Decathlon
AP Spanish 4
AP Gov/Econ</p>

<p>Please note: I can most likely take one or two more classes over the summer at a local community college.
I can take eight classes at school, but only if it includes AcDec because it is a night class.
I also do not wish to overload my schedule because I wish to maintain all A's throughout high school, and I must take as many AP classes as possible because I would definitely prefer to be valedictorian. Unfortunately, I have multiple competitive people wishing to be valedictorian. :( Thanks in advance if anyone can help me decide which classes to drop because my guidance counselor is next to useless... :D</p>

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<p>First you should know that MIT doesn’t care if you’re valedictorian. MIT also doesn’t care if you get all As. MIT will probably care if you get Cs or if you get a lot of Bs, but you definitely do not need to get all As to get into MIT.</p>

<p>What MIT <em>does</em> care about is that you are passionate about something, and that you pursue that something, preferably in a way that benefits your community.</p>

<p>Your four-year plan will not get you into MIT. It might, of course, but your chances aren’t going to be any higher than most other applicants. My advice to you, then, is this:</p>

<p>1) Have fun. You shouldn’t be taking any APs in subjects you’re not interested in. Don’t take AP classes just because they’re AP classes. Unless that’s what you’re into, in which case you should make sure that there are other things you’re into, too. I was really into taking APs just because they’re APs and because people thought they were hard, so I understand if you like that. But make sure that’s not all there is to you.</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind that AP exams can be self-studied with a prep book, and that’s worth as much as if not more than taking the class. If you have a choice between a class you want to take and a class you think you should take because it’s an AP class, remember that you can always self-study the AP.</p>

<p>2) Don’t aim for valedictorian, and definitely do not pick your classes with that goal in mind. Again, MIT doesn’t care if you’re valedictorian, and putting all your efforts into becoming valedictorian might hinder your efforts to become something that MIT <em>does</em> care about, like a risk-taker or an active member of your community.</p>

<p>3) Everyone takes classes. Classes won’t make you stand out. Find something you like that’s not classes. Something interesting. Something nerdy. Something weird. Something you think is cool. Like research, or collecting mud and then blogging about the things that hatch out of it.</p>

<p>4) Volunteer. Once you find that something nerdy you like, figure out a way you can make it useful to other people. Maybe teach elementary school students, or bug people on the street about the amphibian extinction crisis. Be creative.</p>

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<p>From the APs on your list, the three I self-studied and did not regret self-studying were environmental science, comparative government, and psychology. The core science subjects (physics, chem, biology) all have lab components that you would be sad to miss out on. The math subjects (calc bc, statistics) are much easier with a teacher to explain things to you and give you homework, calc more so than statistics. You might also be able to self-study econ. I tried and failed, but possibly just because I’m not very interested in econ.</p>

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<p>First of all, thank you very much for your quick reply! Your advice is quite sound about the whole AP class/valedictorian topic, and I am also well aware of the advantages of extracurricular activities, interests in unique topics, sports, etc. About self-studying, I was kind of thinking about it. However at my school the AP Psychology teacher just happens to be an MIT alumni, so I really want to get to know him well so he can write a good letter of recommendation. I am sure he will know exactly what to say and how to say it, but self-studying a history class or environmental seems like a good idea. I will definitely think about my options! Thanks again for your advice.</p>

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<p>By the way, I do enjoy lots of hard classes, a rigorous workload, and learning! I also am finding interest in computer programming, astronomy, creative writing, and quite possibly would like to be on teen jeopardy! No idea if teen jeopardy looks good on an application or not, but regardless I would like to take part in it.</p>

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<p>Just thought I’d pitch in–I got into MIT after having taking 2 AP tests as a junior. I thought it would hurt me (since there ARE a lot more APs available to take at my school) but my schedule was filled with other things, and I spent my time doing activities I loved, having fun, and generally not stressing out too much about what would “get me into college.” </p>

<p>I honestly think you shouldn’t overthink it by trying to take/self-study a ton of APs just for the sake of it. From the ones you’re passionate about, your ECs, essays, other classes, and recommendations, they can TELL you’re smart. When it gets to the point that you’re taking a ridiculous number, you risk 1. doing poorly on them because you’re taking on too much or 2. seeming like you’re unfocused and spending your time doing these tests just for the sake of getting into college, which is never good.</p>

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<p>^neverending I respect your opinions. However, you misinterpret my haphazard schedule as trying to cram as many AP classes in as possible. To be frank, I am not trying to do that at all. Sure MIT probably wouldn’t even look at me it I had ZERO AP classes, but besides wanting to be valedictorian (for personal reasons) I am taking those classes so I can learn as much as possible. I LOVE LEARNING! It is my passion, no matter what the subject happens to be. <em>This</em> is why I am overworking myself. I am also self-studying a few classes for non-AP credit just for fun because I feel the need to be sufficiently intelligent in most, if not all subjects. I also realize that having so many AP classes in variously different fields of education may connote that I am just trying to enhance my application. Hopefully, in my interview and my essays I can convey that this is not the truth and that I really do love stress, ridiculous amounts of homework, difficult classes, and most of all: learning.</p>

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<p>By the way, out of pure curiosity, which extracurricular activities, sports, interesting endeavors, or “fun” classes did you take?</p>

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<p>This is a good message, although the funny thing (maybe I missed it) was that there was no mention of the ideal schedule to get into MIT? Although, one can hardly expect that there isn’t some interest given where it’s posted.</p>

<p>I agree personally that taking APs in subjects you’re not into would kind of suck, but I somehow feel it’s better to try to take a few more than one is comfortable with in a lot of cases. Why? Because the likelihood of getting into MIT or any similarly competitive school is slim, and a relatively hardcore looking schedule (even in things you don’t enjoy) could get you into other (less competitive) very good schools; it definitely helps with strong public schools.</p>

<p>Given NO benefit to loading up on more hard classes than I cared for, I would probably have just taken AP science and math. I like literature, but it gets stressful when it’s a class and you’re judged academically.</p>

<p>My advice is this: take the APs that interest you, definitely take anything fundamental to your future plans (unless exceptional cases, like a shady teacher, etc) and add on a few other topics that don’t look too daunting as workload. You don’t need to take more than 4 APs in any term, very honestly. More important to do well in almost all your classes at that point.</p>

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<p>You can teach yourself AP Statistics in six weeks or less. I’d drop it. I think that you could also teach yourself AP Environmental Sci in much less time than it takes at school.</p>

<p>Are you required to take Calc A/B prior to Calc B/C at your school? If it is not required and you are strong in math, you could go directly into Calc B/C. Do you have to take Academic Decathlon as a class, or could you participate in it exclusively as an EC?</p>

<p>Do students at your school commonly take AP Physics without taking some other physics course first, or are you taking physics during your freshman or sophomore year?</p>

<p>I’d strongly suggest keeping all four years of Spanish.</p>

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<p>@mathboy98 </p>

<p>I completely agree with taking more AP’s which could get me into less competitive-but still highly regarded- colleges. However, I was hoping to take more than 4 AP’s for the sake of pleasure, but I also want to take interesting “extracurricular” classes. Is there any way to balance many AP’s while keeping band/jazz/journalism?</p>

<p>@QuantMech</p>

<p>If I were to self-study AP stats and env science, would I still receive class credit for those classes? I suspect not… which is why I am trying to fit all these into my overloaded schedule. About math and science prerequisites, unfortunately I must take A/B calc before calc B/C although I <em>KNOW</em> that I could easily skip past A/B since I am very strong in math. For science, my high school requires freshmen to take physical science, sophomores to take biology, juniors to take chemistry (or environmental science or both), and seniors to take our one and only physics class. As for AcDec, it’s rather tricky; it is sort of like an extracurricular because it is a night class, but I also would receive class credit if I took it. The only other night class my school offers is astronomy which I would LOVE to take, but I am undecided between the awards I would receive from AcDec or the incredible class experience and learning about astronomy. My school has also done extremely well in AcDec. I believe we are 25 years undefeated or more, so that would be an incredible experience. On the other hand, I also will be working as an intern at an astronomy observatory over the summer because I absolutely have an immense passion for learning about our universe! By the way, I am not so sure of taking all four years of Spanish. It seems rather unnecessary in college admissions.</p>

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<p>You would not get credit for the class in your high school, and it would not contribute to your high school GPA. In college admissions, however, self-studying an AP is worth just as much as taking the class and then the AP exam. They would see the standardized score, which they can use to compare you to other students. (The grade you get in the class is less meaningful, since grade inflation varies wildly between high schools.) They would furthermore see that you have the initiative and interest to study material on your own, and to master it enough to ace the AP. You will also still get college credit for the class when you start college, since it’s the exam, and not the course, that gives you college credit.</p>

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<p>Okay thank you lidusha. I will probably self-study environmental science, and I will rethink on self-studying any others. As a side note, many people are saying that being valedictorian, having all a’s, taking wayyyy too many ap classes, etc. can hurt your application. Is this true? Is it better to focus more on which extracurricular activities I like to do? The only problem is I actually LIKE taking all those difficult and time consuming classes. How could I convey this through my application to show that I actually like learning and that I’m not just doing them for the prestige?</p>

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<p>MITobsession, as far as I can tell from reading the MIT forum for about 7 years now, the best way to get into MIT is to do the things that make sense for you, and not the things that you think will optimize MIT admissions chances.</p>

<p>I presume that since you were concerned about not receiving class credit for the AP’s you self-study, a principal motivation for you to take them would be the GPA weighting, which will increase your odds of being valedictorian. (Weeps for the future of our country.) You are not to blame for the crazy situation that has arisen, where a student thinks that the course schedule should be packed with AP’s, so that he comes out ahead in the rankings. However, this will not help you with MIT. In fact, I suspect that this is why MIT rejects some valedictorians and takes people who are lower ranked at the same school. I hope that one of the MIT admissions people will join this thread to comment on this point.</p>

<p>Without meaning to insult the people for whom AP Statistics and AP Environmental Science are the right choices, I have to say that a lot of people regard these as “AP lite,” and they do nothing to add to the rigor of your schedule, in my opinion, whatever they might add to your weighted GPA.</p>

<p>4 years of Spanish might not help you get into MIT. But I think this will be increasingly important for anyone living in the US who wants to be able to communicate with everyone else living in the US. If you are picking what you do based on your perception of whether it will enhance your chances of getting into MIT, you are probably going to be making a lot of sub-optimal choices.</p>

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<p>AP Spanish 3? I don’t think that’s an AP haha</p>

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<p>@QuantMech</p>

<p>I agree with your advice; MIT does not want students who try to fit admissions standards. However, perhaps you have misconstrued my reasoning. At first, I admit I <em>did</em> want to take AP classes for their weight in bringing me to valedictorian. However, I have realized that I truly love rigorous workloads and learning as much as possible. I agree that stats and env science can be considered “AP lite” classes. Thanks to all your advice though, I have decided to take jazz band junior and senior year and self-study AP environmental science and AP statistics. Thanks again to everyone that has helped me on this thread! Also, 4 years of Spanish appeals to me… but I don’t like it as much as I thought I would…</p>

<p>@StanfordFuture</p>

<p>Agreed. My mistake. There is no AP Spanish 3; it is not even honors at my school. It is just regular.</p>

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<p>I would avoid taking 4 years of foreign language for sanity :wink: don’t listen to me if you feel good about it though.</p>

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<p>I agree mathboy. Spanish 1 is painful enough as it is: probably my least favorite class just because of my disdain for learning a foreign language.</p>

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<p>I realize that this is unwelcome parental advice, but I’m going to offer it anyway: For your generation, it’s going to be a great advantage to be bilingual in Spanish. Four years of high school Spanish will not get you there, but less than four years will be even less helpful. You’re both smart–figure out a way to learn the language that works for you.</p>

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<p>Thank you for your advice! No advice is unwelcome. I agree that in America’s new generation, most of us will need to know Spanish. However, I was hoping I wouldn’t need Spanish as much as for example a worker at a business because I plan on being an engineer.</p>