<p>I know a senior who still seems to love Swarthmore, but I guess it really differs person to person. I'll figure it out if I get in.</p>
<p>The featured discussion for this board really discusses the variety of experiences to be had at Swarthmore, good and bad.</p>
<p>Forgetmenots, does that worry you at all?</p>
<p>Perhaps Swarthygirl is just using a new user name in order to remain anonymous. IMHO, her comment has a lot of truth to it.</p>
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Forgetmenots, does that worry you at all?
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<p>Not particularly...most of the people I know who aren't happy at Swat were RD kids, not earlies, haha. But really, I'm fairly positive and optimistic about everything, so I'm not at all worried about not liking Swarthmore in four years. If it really gets bad, I'll know by junior year, when I can go abroad and come back ready to love Swat again. :]</p>
<p>That sounds like a good plan.</p>
<p>No matter what college I go to, I'm definitely going abroad. I <3 Spanish and I can't wait til I get the chance to go to Spain.</p>
<p>I'm from Kansas City, Missouri, and this one kid that graduated last year is at Swat, and he came back to visit. Now, this kid was in the YOUNG DEMOCRATs club with me, and he was like "omg, swarthmore is so flipping liberal." So, the extreme liberal-ness could be considered a con by some. </p>
<p>But then he told us that it was a great school, and that we should all apply there next year. :)</p>
<p>Yes, it's definitely very liberal...although the Republicans club had a new resurrgence this year and they started back up (they fell through sometime last year), which is good for diversity of opinion. In general though, it's a very liberal (and accepting) place, so if you aren't ready for that, it might not be a good place for you.</p>
<p><em>grin</em> Oh no, I go here. I lurk on College Confidential sometimes, and am frustrated with the roses-and-sunshine vision of this place, and the way anybody who doesn't like it here is told that they must be crazy and they should transfer. I guess finals and this thread pushed me to a breaking point.</p>
<p>By "liberal," more of the frustration comes from the total non-acceptance of any conservative viewpoint, such as "I do not like sexual chalkings in public" or "Sometimes I am in favor of capitalism, and I like to study economic history and dead white men." If you come, and are at all a person who listens to other people, get ready to castigate yourself for being racist and homophobic and classist at least once a week. </p>
<p>That said, there are some truly great things about Swarthmore, some experiences I've had here I wouldn't have had anywhere else. But if you want to know what you may actually be stepping into (a cauldron of misery, where everything good just makes you feel even more undeserving), honestly, College Confidential is not the place to come.</p>
<p>psh, i already suffer from an inferiority complex when it comes to my own work (my sources for projects and papers have doctorates; i do not and thus it's inevitable that their work, vocabulary, and resources are superior...how could i not suffer from one?). i'd like to at least come to a school where i feel like i'm getting my time and effort's worth for this complex. just another reason to want to be a swarthmore student, for me.</p>
<p>and i enjoy the guilt/debate over my more conservative viewpoints. i recently wrote a paper about the correlation between ethical egoism and capitalism and upon its completion decided that i completely disagreed with everything i wrote and hated myself for proposing a thesis in support of such a system. i'd love a school where i could engage other students in such debate.</p>
<p>misery and cold, hard slaps in the face are already parts of my regular learning regiment. i'd at least like their existence to be of value.</p>
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...the total non-acceptance of any conservative viewpoint, such as "I do not like sexual chalkings in public"
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<p>The chalking part is false. You know that there was widespread dislike of the Queer Week chalkings last year among the students. You also know that two faculty members organized and moderated a very heavily attended forum on the issue where all sides of the issue were presented by six different groups of students.</p>
<p>You also know that one of the Poli Sci professors is a frequent contributor to the conservative foreign policy and national security magazines. I would certainly agree that Swarthmore is by and large a liberal school....as are most of the elite private colleges and universities in the northeast.</p>
<p>I would disagree with the assessment that Swarthmore's services are lacking in comparison to its peer schools. For example, Swarthmore has 24/7 health care with overnight beds. The health services at many of its top peer schools are closed nights and weekends. Swarthmore's tutoring program such as the Writing Associates program is held up as a example of an excellent program and a goal to strive for by places like Amherst. Likewise, the number of Deans at Swarthmore is exceptionally high on a per capita basis.</p>
<p>You weren't clear about Psych Services. I would be surprised if they turned a student away and refused to sit down and discuss whatever was bothering the student in an informal counseling session. I believe that a "therapy slot" is an actual scheduled therapy session with one of the Psychiatrists or Psychologists, usually as part of an ongoing treatment program. BTW, Psych Services publishes its statistics (number of students, number of visits, etc.) in its annual report each year. Swarthmore's Psych Services serves about the same percentage of students as most comparable colleges nationally.</p>
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....lots of seniors are ready to get out, on the other hand.
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<p>All seniors are ready to get out (to one degree or another). It's like high school. By the time you get to be a senior, you have been there, done that, and are ready to move on to the next stage. Same thing with college. I know I was ready.</p>
<p>BTW, in most cases, you would have to be nuts to not study abroad for a semester while at Swarthmore. They offer a long list of the best programs around, in every corner of the globe, and the process is as painless as it could possibly be.</p>
<p>Interesteddad, this may seem a bit obvious, but you don't attend the school. I'm strongly assuming that you have a child who does, but that step of removal from the process can mean a lot. It's the difference between intellectualizing/abstracting and, you know, actual experience. Also, it's a little condescending to say things like, "You <em>know</em>" blah blah blah... it also seems to apply an experiential basis to what you're saying, which really can't be the case, no?</p>
<p>Also, you're attacking a straw man on the "facilities" argument. I said uneven, not bad. For example, I would argue that Worth <em>was</em> phenomenally bad until very, very recently. Previously (and not currently either, really, but there're some talks in the works), they did not provide transport for people to go to the hospital or receive any sort of care that could not be provided in the very, very outdated building (they only have... one computer?), a fact which the current director admits to and is, fortunately, attempting to remedy. This is kind-of ridiculous, considering the bizarre parking situation, which means that nobody sans a handful of seniors has a car to receive medical care. Other low-to-middling level services and facilities include Dining Services (esp. as it relates to Sharples: our current Student Council, which has actually been fairly competent, has been trying all freaking semester to get them to even discuss certain ideas such as extended hours or reworking meal equivalency) and Beardsley (I can't even <em>recall</em> how old that building is). Need I mention that we failed an ADA audit recently, after being aware of the stipulations for over two decades?</p>
<p>I'm not surprised that they "turned a student away," because they, er, did? Believe my own anecdote or not... I'm also wondering: say that they do fill up the slots very, very swiftly... do Psych Services publish the data on who is <em>turned away</em> because of scheduling? Would the data they published then be skewed? My experience with individuals here seems to indicate a high rate of Psych Services attendance. (Also, I know a fair number who seek psychological assistance outside of our Psych Service for a number of reasons. Given the relatively high level of privilege at our school that would indicate the ability to do as such, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there is a larger percentage of individuals using psychological assistance as a whole in comparison to some schools. I'd like to see the data on this. When you say "comparable," what are you referencing Swat to?)</p>
<p>I was not present at the chalkings discussion, but I'm unsure as to whether the single professed conservative professor you speak of actually speaks against Swarthmore's liberal bias. Given, those leanings are extremely obvious, but they could be a legitimate con to a certain body of potential students, and one shouldn't pretend that this very, very obvious feature of the social-political environment isn't extant. Pointing at the one "X" at Swat is tokenizing.</p>
<p>In addition, while I am not interested myself in going abroad, it should be noted that this is a good link to talk about the in-group dynamic among much of the Swarthmore administration. It can be difficult to relate issues with other parts of the college to some deans - everybody knows everybody and wants to protect their friends. For example, Steve Piker, the current Study Abroad Advisor, was not publically reprimanded by the administration for suggesting that a girl who was sexually assaulted by her host-brother in Italy was "asking for it." This passage is still in the study abroad manual that was published and given to students, not to mention that it is present on the Study Abroad web site. This is unacceptable, but repeated attempts by interested individuals and groups to have this removed have been met with, well-- you can see for yourself. </p>
<p>I'm not saying Swarthmore is terrible, but there are problems that you're not acknowledging. I don't feel like rationalization of active negative perceptions about the institution is going to result in either an accurate assessment of the college, or any actual change to the problems that I and 1,400+ other students deal with in our-day-to-day lives.</p>
<p>The subject speaks for itself. While there are definitely issues at Swarthmore, the silver lining to this cloud is readily apparent. Having lived in ML my freshman year, I do believe there is a long string of negatives I could name in less than 30 seconds that would rival the whinings of political columnists contained within an entire book.</p>
<p>However, back to the issue. After taking a semester-long leave of absence, I can vouch that Swarthmore allocates its money in the best interests of its people. I spent nights (some for many days) at different schools with high school friends at Penn State, Wesleyan and UPenn. Yes, you may not have air conditioning, or the best food, or a library with a gorgeous atrium and columns flanking the building-upon-building facade (Wesleyan's campus is gorgeous :P), but what you do have is amazing financial aid packages, and money that is prioritized according to Swarthmore's best interests. If you attend the school, those interests are probably yours too. An intellectually-charged life of the mind is what the school advocates, and you see that in subtle, but powerful ways.</p>
<p>We don't have amazing state-of-the-art buildings (with the exception of the Science buildings, which do require frequent updating in order to meet practical demands), but we don't have an overpaid, burgeoning beauracracy either. Swarthmore has a staff and an administration that cares. As a student working in admissions aptly stated when I was a prospectus, "It isn't about having nice physical structures or even a state of the art curriculum. It's the people that make Swarthmore what it is."</p>
<p>I am love with Swarthmore. When I'm in the best mood (read: drugs from Worth -kidding-), I actually thank my stars that I go to a school with some crappy dorms, crappy food, and people who in general seem to have lost their grasp on fashion and pop culture. It makes me realize that despite all the negatives, I immensely enjoy the experience and my friends in all areas of Swarthmore from the administration to my academic peers. If you want to come here, you know you want to come here. The biggest complainers can usually name one great thing about the school that they wouldn't change for anything else in the world. </p>
<p>The short version:
Free printing and all-you-can-eat every meal at Sharples. Smart money allocation for the freaking win.</p>
<p>While bigger than some (like Haverford), Swarthmore is still small compared to most other LACs. Too small?</p>
<p>answerto:</p>
<p>The problem that all college students have is that they only go to one school and they only go to one school at an age when they are most likely to gripe.</p>
<p>That's why it is useful to step back and look at colleges from a quantitative standpoint, whether we are talking per student endowment, usage of psych services, or whatever.</p>
<p>If you look at the universe of colleges, it is absurd on its face to complain about Swarthmore's services or facilities. All but about a dozen colleges and universities in the country would kill to have Swarthmore's services and facilities. As I mentioned, many of Swarthmore's services are held up as models for other very, very good colleges.</p>
<p>For example, you may complain about Worth. But, ask a Harvard or State U student if they have a place where they can spend a night or two in a private room watching TV and getting served ginger ale and toast when they have a stomach flu?</p>
<p>You say you don't like the warning to female students in the study abroad manual. Well, I've read the study abroad websites from a number of schools and Swarthmore's guide for study abroad has some of the best real-world, no BS information I've seen...not to mention, one of the biggest lists of great pre-approved program lists in every corner of the world. Compare it to many universities that limit you to going overseas with 30 people from your own school instead of the laundry list of options Swarthmore offers.</p>
<p>Some of what you write is more than fair. I don't think it's any great secret that Swarthmore is politically and socially liberal.</p>
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While bigger than some (like Haverford), Swarthmore is still small compared to most other LACs. Too small?
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<p>There's no one-size answer for every student. Swarthmore is too small for some, just right for others.</p>
<p>There are trade-offs at every size level. Swarthmore could not provide the experience they offer, especially academically, if the school were significantly larger. It would quickly lose the sense of community -- especially among among the students and professors.</p>
<p>The tradeoff is that Swarthmore will never offer the variety of courses that you would find at a larger school.</p>
<p>I would say that most, but probably not all, Swarthmore students find its size about right for the first three semesters, too small by the end of the semester before they study abroad, and just right again after they return.</p>
<p>Anyone who believes there is 24/7 health care at Swarthmore is seriously misinformed. There is a staff person at the health center at all times, but several of the staff members have no medical training at all -- that's right, no nursing, no nothing. This has been problematic on weekends, when certain behavioral excesses can require serious medical attention. Fortunately, the College is looking into improving this situation. Also, there are good hospitals nearby.</p>
<p>There is also a significant alcohol problem on campus. One of the more egregious examples occurred a few months ago, when a drunk senior assaulted some other students, causing campus security to call the real police. When the police arrived, the drunk had to be restrained from harming others and started asking the officers what they got on the SAT test. Nice. Though not widely publicized, there is a relatively steady stream of Swarthmore students who end up in the local emergency rooms with alcohol poisoning or other substance-related problems. Is this any worse than other schools? Probably not. Is it something that should be a concern? Yep. To its credit, the College administration is starting to take these matters very seriously. </p>
<p>The local police handle College calls very well, and with far more flexibility than some of the neighboring police departments. Several College students are volunteer members of the ambulance corps and fire department, which also helps. </p>
<p>Finally, hasn't "Interesteddad" been hanging around here for several years? He sounds like a defensive insider to me.</p>
<p>"When the police arrived, the drunk had to be restrained from harming others and started asking the officers what they got on the SAT test."</p>
<p>I suppose it's no laughing matter, but that is TOO perfect. Go Swarthmore.</p>
<p>Furthermore, to interesteddad's credit--though I've been recently deferred and could seriously use some cons, it's nice to have a first line of defense against disgruntled second semester sophomores. After all, I believe I've heard that one of the largest reasons Swarthmore students are dissatisfied is that they're the cream of the crop and had a wide variety of options on the table--so the weight of their collective loss overbalances the Swarthmore experience no matter what.</p>
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Anyone who believes there is 24/7 health care at Swarthmore is seriously misinformed. There is a staff person at the health center at all times, but several of the staff members have no medical training at all -- that's right, no nursing, no nothing. This has been problematic on weekends, when certain behavioral excesses can require serious medical attention. Fortunately, the College is looking into improving this situation. Also, there are good hospitals nearby.
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<p>Again, compare to other schools. There are several very large endowment liberal arts colleges where the health center doors are locked at nights and on weekends. No staff. No 24/7.</p>
<p>Of course, Swarthmore has drinking. But, compare the stats. Swarthmore averages single digit (usually low single digit) alcohol poisoning hospital transports per year. Again, compare to similar colleges. One high endowment liberal arts college this fall had to call in ambulances from another town to handle the number of alcohol poisoning transports in a single night. </p>
<p>I believe that the incident you cite was the only alcohol arrest and/or transport this semester. You can do a search of the Phoenix archives and find the incidents each year, going back about seven years. There are usually a handful each year. The frats have been on historically good behavior this year, something for which Jim Larrimore probably deserves some credit.</p>
<p>You can also look at binge drinking rates, a measure that is consistently surveyed at most colleges and universities across the country.</p>
<p>"I believe that the incident you cite was the only alcohol arrest and/or transport this semester."</p>
<p>I'm a student. I know for a fact that's false. Not all of these incidents are publicized (for good reason!) so there's no way to know about them unless you happen to witness them firsthand, or be hooked into the Swat gossip network. </p>
<p>ID, I agree with you that for the most part Swarthmore is doing well compared to its peer schools.</p>
<p>"If I get accepted I'll come to you for advice about how to avoid living there... I heard a lot of the people that listed fantasy or sci-fi on their personality survey thingie ended up in ML."</p>
<p>Not actually true anymore. For example, there are only two members of Psi Phi living in ML right now, to the best of my knowledge. Neither are freshmen.</p>
<p>"although the Republicans club had a new resurrgence this year and they started back up"</p>
<p>They really don't do much. At all.</p>