@thumper1 In my neighborhood almost everyone is a college grad and I can’t think of anyone who didn’t attend a top 100 university. Maybe that’s because I live in the Midwest and all of the close state flagships are in the top 100. Michigan, Wisconsin, Illinois Iowa. Others went to Michigan State and Loyola. Again still top 100. Our next door neighbor went to Alabama and my cousin who live a few blocks from me to Colorado Boulder, so yep both top 100. So maybe in some areas it’s unusual but certainly not here.
Thank you all for these really helpful responses.
My teenagers that I refer to aren’t my own children, but students I coach as part of an entrepreneur program.
I find that as I’m teaching my students about how to find and take advantage of real world opportunities I get push-back. Both parents and students are very afraid of anything that detracts from studying and/or standard extracurricular activities.
From what I can see, most after school programs are pre-structured and adult-supervised. I teach students to follow their own interests without outside direction, and I get them networking with professionals, and I help them strategize projects that help build their resumes for the long-long term.
In my experience as a business owner and an entrepreneur coach, I feel it is critical for me to be teaching these kids how to take action based on their passions, independently, in ways above and beyond merely joining pre-structured programs (even if they are “exclusive” and “application-only” programs.) – It seems obvious that in order to stand out you have to do something very different. But with all of the outside pressure and competition, my students (and their parents) feel like the students are never doing enough, which compels them to be doing more and more and more of the same. More clubs, more sports, more application-only programs.
Up until recently I’ve been insisting that students should focus instead on building success skills because in the long run those pay off more than having a fancy degree (at least for my generation.)
But maybe it is different for this generation? All the fear coming from my clients makes me even start to doubt my own mission.
So that’s why I’ve asked for this feedback. Because I don’t want to give my teenagers any advice that will result in closed doors. My only intention is to open doors. So if I serve them best by backing off for their own good, then I shall.
If, on the other hand, their fears are unfounded (as it seems logically to me that they are) then how do I communicate this in a clear, empowering way to them? And how do I reassure the parents of my mission without letting their fear be the driver?
Don’t swallow the marketing koolaid that one’s success/happiness in life is predicated on using the right brand of shampoo, driving the right kind of car, going to a particular half-dozen colleges.
OP, what sort of kids? Those with all the usual advantages, those whose families are still striving but have 3 square meals, or those who are clearly disadvantaged on a daily basis?
“It seems obvious that in order to stand out you have to do something very different.”
Not necessarily different. Of course we have examples of wildly successful entrepreneurs who did things that were quite different and changed lives. But there is still a huge measure of conformity and the conventional needed to get those dreams to life: hard work, meeting expectations, setting the right goals, getting along with others.
Tell them to join cc and we can answer their questions firsthand. No need for a middle man!
“In my experience as a business owner and an entrepreneur coach, I feel it is critical for me to be teaching these kids how to take action based on their passions, independently”
It seems inconsistent to me that you are a small business owner and entrepreneur coach, but that you’re stuck on the idea that doors slam shut if one doesn’t attend a small handful of schools.
I live in the Midwest too, but my experience is very different - on my street, almost everyone is a college grad, but those colleges are directional state universities or “lower-tier” universities. Most are nowhere near the top 100 in any list.
And who are these poor loser neighbors of mine? Teachers, lawyers, small businessmen, engineers, scientific researchers (me!), and entrepreneurs. Most seem pretty happy and financially stable. However, most people don’t drive the “right” car, because in my neck of the woods, it’s all Fords and GMs.
“In my neighborhood almost everyone is a college grad and I can’t think of anyone who didn’t attend a top 100 university. Maybe that’s because I live in the Midwest”
- In Midwest also. Most people around us care a lot what HS kids attend, not so much about what UG. Also we are into receiving big Merit awards at college, preferably full tuition or close. And since D. went to one of the best private HS’s in our state, most of her friends are either in Grad. School or graduated from Grad. school already or at least obtained some licenses like CPA. Nobody is checking the ranking of UG. People around my D. are normally looking at UG as a stepping point to the higher level of education. And this stepping point should preferably be as cheap as possible.
Wow, that’s a pretty hardcore prestige racket where you live 
I have visions of dinner party guests sneaking into the master bath to examine labels…
Wow. I have no idea where my neighbors went to college!
OP, you can’t make a blanket statement or put in place a one-fits-all approach for a group of kids who are likely very diverse in their interests, abilities, personalities and family situations.
Your best bet, in my opinion, is to get to know the teenagers individually and to adjust your recommendations.
Most of us here are of the opinion that you’re unlikely to do them harm, or close any doors, by not pushing them in some way toward elite schools. State universities do a fine job for tens of thousands of kids – “your” kids included.
Some of the wealthiest people in my town went to “no-name” schools - precisely because they were entrepreneurs; they started / run a chain of local restaurants, or car dealerships, whatever.
How can anyone get to adulthood in the US and think that there are “plum jobs” reserved for Ivy/elite grads?
^ haha, that’s the age old CC angst.
OP can’t really get “between” the tried and true lesson of hard work with the hope he/she can make them more entrepreneurial. All any of us can try to do is inspire and broaden their thinking. And, give them the confidence to try. This isn’t something that’s either/or.
I don’t know where my neighbors went to college either, but many seem to believe that unless a student is interested in becoming a doctor, lawyer, accountant, or teacher, or has a robust family network or family business to fall back on, college networking opportunities can give a boost to new grads.I also can’t find a single entrepreneur on the block - my neighbors are mostly doctors, lawyers, engineers, teachers, accountants, and professors.
Also, it is possible that at least some of the parents work for companies that hire only from a select list of schools at the entry level, with occasional exceptions made for the well-connected. This is true for H’s company,which has a steady need for engineers, and he was actually surprised to learn this after discussions with both HR and the Career Center at S’s school.
None. It is a fact that graduates of top-drawer schools do better. But do those graduates do better because they went to top-drawer schools?
This question has actually been studied. The researchers looked at graduates who were accepted to elite colleges, but chose to attend less selective colleges, say, public universities. And those graduates did just as well as their Ivy-league counterparts. What matters is what the student brings to their college education.
Fame does not equal qualilty, and I encourage you to look beyond the name-brand schools. There are many many less-selective – which does NOT mean “inferior” – schools which provide a very fine education, and a good launch into adult life.
“Fame does not equal qualilty” – this. There’s a fascinating young woman on the international forum, who studied math at Bryn Mawr, then did her master’s at Stanford. She has some enlightening things to say about Stanford, as well as the nearby UC Berkeley:
“Prestigious” universities often teach introductory math courses poorly. For example, Math 51 at Stanford (linear algebra and multivariable calculus in a single quarter) is possibly the single worst-conceived course at the university. Students come out of it not knowing much more than how to multiply matrices and take partial derivatives. Students who took linear algebra and multivariable calculus at a community college are better prepared for their upper-level coursework…
Berkeley has a reputation for poor math instruction, and the math department has recently sparked a national controversy for firing a sequence of well-liked math instructors (when one of them decided to sue). Rumor goes that the tenured faculty don’t care about teaching non-majors and don’t want to look bad in comparison to more engaging junior instructors. Again, students are probably better off getting their math foundation elsewhere…
Many other “prestigious” universities like to teach their introductory math courses too abstractly in a way that goes over the head of many students in the room. (The youngsters are smart enough to adapt and figure out how to pass these courses, but that does not mean that they learned much in the process. Abstraction is useful and valuable, but not as a first introduction to a topic). I saw that happen a lot at the University of Pennsylvania."
http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/international-students/1815390-change-of-residence-p3.html
Thanks, everyone, for your continuing feedback.
Most responses suggest parents’ overall confidence that their teenagers will be fine regardless of where they are accepted. That there are no permanently “closed doors” or irreversible consequences from not being at a “top” school.
I think that’s true based on my experience of the world too, knowing that my most successful colleagues and acquaintances (measured by both meaning and $$$) didn’t necessarily graduate from the “best” undergraduate programs.
So then what do you think drives all the competition and obsession over admissions?
And all the time and effort and money spent on SAT prep and tutors and college advisors… It’s a tremendous amount. So what’s really behind the craze?
Why does everyone give this so much concern and so much attention and so much energy and so much anxiety, when it mostly evens out in the long run…?
What’s beneath all this?
Why all the fear?
I don’t think everyone is obsessed, and caught up with competition when it comes to colleges. Some are…but I guessing the vast majority are not.
Remember, most kids apply to a few colleges, and usually within a short distance from home. The population you are reading about here on CC is not the national norm. Most students do not apply to,elite schools, and most students do not complete 20 applications.
And most high school seniors and their families don’t give two hoots where their friends will be attending college. It’s not a contest…at all.
Honestly, I’m not sire I knew where any of my kids’ friends were applying to college during HS. It just didn’t matter to us.
“And all the time and effort and money spent on SAT prep and tutors and college advisors… It’s a tremendous amount. So what’s really behind the craze?”
The craze affects a tiny percentage of high school kids. The vast majority apply to only a couple of local schools, including their state university(ies) and state colleges.