<p>Does anyone have the SAT ranges for the top 25 national universities?</p>
<p>bern-- likewise, I like your back-calculated admission model for a mental exercise.....addressing the question: ASSUMING number & quality of applicants has no relationship to class size, how selective is each institution per applicant unit?</p>
<p>keep em coming</p>
<p>"Maybe a bunch of low quality students will start to apply to schools that moved up on US News but the high quality students who are actually ADMITTED to these schools don't seem to care about US News when they make their actual college choices"</p>
<p>Wow.</p>
<p>I am telling you now for the THIRD time, Revealed Preference rankings mean absolutely nothing when it comes to academic quality. Press the BACK button and check the thread you are in because we are most certainly talking about academic prowess here. The fact that many people choose to pass on Penn in comparison to say...Brown does not indicate that Brown is necessarily a more prestigious school. If you are not talking about academic reputation, then why are you posting?</p>
<p>"Yes the Revealed Pref ranking is a popularity contest. I never said it wasn't. But then again, the most core American values are also based on a popularity contest."</p>
<p>This made me laugh out loud. What does this have to do with anything? </p>
<p>"Anyway, what I am trying to show is that US News has little affect on the choices of top students. Therefore even though a lot of us are hyping up US News there may be the possibility that the rank has no bearing whatsoever."</p>
<p>Bearing on what??? I am still flummoxed by what you are trying to prove. I already have proven that mitigating factors certainly exist to mar those rankings and I think a majority of people here would agree with me in that respect. Self Selecting schools, financial dispositions, ethnicity (with the Morehouses and Howards of the world), familial prespective, etc are all viable influences on such a ranking. US news is certainly disputable, but at least the formula is more antiseptic. You know EXACTLY what is being measured. Take it or leave it. I find a system that puts Brown over Columbia HIGHLY suspect even if it is derivative and a poplularity contest.</p>
<p>Bates is 21 on the LAC list, or the amalgamated list with every school listed?</p>
<p>---------THESE ARE FAKE RANKINGS--------
just to warn everyone...don't be surprised when the real ones come out and they don't match these!</p>
<p>Where is Trinity College???? It was top 25 last year...did it frop off the face of the earth?</p>
<p> Reveille, Barrons has explained how he obtained the magazine. If you do not believe the veracity of his posts, simply ignore it. In a few hours or days, you will see the numbers with your own eyes. In the meantime, it is wise to show some courtesy to someone who has spent a lot of time satisfying the curiosity of others.
Trinity</p>
<p>Rooster,</p>
<p>I looked at the survey design section of the report which was provided on the link you included in one of your posts. (I think it starts on page 21-22)
I was curious because I had read other summaries and references to this ranking and I was confused. However, I'm pretty sure this is a report based on a single data set and not something that is published routinely . I have to admit, I did not analyse the statistical interpretation(s) of this subjective survey. I wouldn't know how. :)</p>
<p>reveilleforet-- I haven't seen a top 50 LAC list yet, just top 20 on post 69, plus a few other single reports, like Bates above.</p>
<p>One more thing I must address:</p>
<p>"US News is a leading indicator about the popularity of schools in the minds of college seniors..."</p>
<p>Let me take the time and correct you. US news has absolutely nothing to do with college seniors. Sure it factors in INCOMING college students for the class rank/SAT avg. component, but those elements certainly have nothing to do with popularity now do they? And for that matter, neither does the Revealed Preference ranking. US news uses Peer Assesment as a device to gauge how paramount academic experts view tantamount schools. I like that idea and I think it is very analogous to prestige...to a certain degree. The Revealed Preference ranking judges HS kids...not college seniors. Do I even need to continue or is the insipidity transparent?</p>
<p>For crying out loud, Berkeley is below Wellesley (sp?).</p>
<p>Here's the link. Scroll to page 21 and read the survey design section.</p>
<p>Bates is 21 on LAC. No single list of all.</p>
<p>Trinity is 25 with Mac.</p>
<p>Watch who you call a faker Rev.... Want to bet the ranch on it?</p>
<p>Actually, you may not know this, but in the first U.S. News surveys, Stanford was ranked first in the nation for several years. At that time the survey was purely a popularity contest as they surveyed only college presidents and deans. Due to the criticism over that methodology, the magazine began to develop far more complex criteria for assessing educational quality and while most of the top ranked schools still feel the need to criticize such rankings, privately, most would agree that they have at least some validity since they are measuring something other than just popularity. In fact, I've heard it said that the "Revealed Preference" study has this same fundamental flaw. It assumes that the choices made by the high school students are well-informed. Just as the choices made by the college presidents and deans were not particularly well-informed, neither are the students' choices. Other studies have shown that name recognition, perceived 'prestige', location (urban or rural) and the choices made by friends are far more important in high school seniors' decisions than any critical assessment of quality.</p>
<p>U.S. News at least attempts to lay out a rational methodology for assessing quality though there is plenty of room for criticism, particularly in the weighting each factor is given in their formula.</p>
<p>Finally, I've also heard it said that a far more obvious and meaningful assessment of quality of education would come AFTER rather than BEFORE that educational experience takes place. In other words, a survey of graduates of these colleges would be a far better indicator of quality than a survey of those just admitted who have not yet attended. This seems obvious and is a common criticism of the "Revealed Preferences" study. It was for this reason that U.S. News included a measure of the percentage of graduates who contribute to their alma mater in future years. (It is important that this figure measure percentage of graduates contributing rather than total dollar amount contributed which would certainly bias the results.)</p>
<p>In the end, my point is simply that the U.S. News survey, flawed though it will inevitably be, has actually become a more sound measure of quality than any other assessment available and is very far from being a simple 'beauty' contest.</p>
<p>barrons - I would definately bet the ranch on it considering that neither Trinity nor Macalester were listed on your original post listing the top LAC's.</p>
<p>That only went to 20--21 22 23 24 25. See the difference. Trinity made it look nice and added others that were posted as people requested them.</p>
<h2>Tops 20 LACs </h2>
<p>1 Willliams 0
2 Amherst 0
3 Swarthmore 0
4 Wellesley 0
5 Carleton 0
6 Bowdoin +1
6 Pomona -1
8 Haverford +1
8 Middlebury +3
10 Claremont McKenna +3
10 Davidson -3
12 Wesleyan -3
13 Vassar -1
14 Washington and Lee -1
15 Colgate +1
15 Grinnell +1
15 Hamilton +4
18 Harvey Mudd -3
19 Smith -6
20 Colby -1</p>
<p>Other LACs</p>
<p>21 Bates
23 Oberlin
23 Mount Holyoke
27 Barnard
27 Bucknell
27 Lafayette
32 Kenyon
32 Holy Cross
34 Richmond (New LAC - Used to be ranked 1 in master's Universities)
41 Oxy
50 Depauw
50 Sarah Lawrence</p>
<hr>
<p>Last edited by Trinity : Today at 12:04 PM.</p>
<p>I think Barrons deserves a salary from the administrators of CC. Or at least he should be made a mod.</p>
<p>Thanks, but I lack the time and temperment.</p>
<p>HOW DO YOU KNOW THESE ARE THE RANKINGS?! I'm not sure I believe you.</p>
<p>9.95 plus tax. They have several stacks of them at BN in Seattle. Put them out yesterday at noon.</p>
<p>When looking for an update, check the first page of the thread. The numbers and lists have been updated since they were posted earlier. Except for a few omissions, the first posts should contain all of the numbers discussed in the thread.</p>
<p>Moderator Trinity </p>
<p>Very helpful, Trinity.</p>
<p>I wonder if UCSD will ever break into the 20's...</p>