<p>Sure, livestock may not have the happy life of running through fields all day, but the animals are not treated excessively cruelly. Unless steaks start costing $80+, conditions won't be improving.</p>
<p>Fortunately we have room for all God's creatures. Right next to the mashed potatoes.</p>
<p>Actually, small changes could be made to improve animals' lives without making steaks cost $80 (although I do like that idea- fewer people would eat meat if it were that expensive!). If you think that the conditions of the animals from these investigations do not look excesively cruel, that I don't know what does look cruel. <a href="http://www.cok.net/investigations/%5B/url%5D">http://www.cok.net/investigations/</a></p>
<p>If you link me something from a PETA-like website, you can't expect me to consider it unbiased. I mean, that's like me giving you a link to a website sponsored by the meat packing industry.</p>
<p>Those that are concerned with animal cruelty should just eat free range chicken and beef that do not get hormones injected into them. I eat it because I think it is a healthier product, not just because the animals are treated better.</p>
<p>Would you at least check the link? It was not from PETA's website, but from Compassion Over Killing's (which is known to be less "extreme" than PETA). There are actual pictures of conditions in factory farms. I have read many books on the treatment of animals in the meat industry, and they are consistant in their reports of conditions.</p>
<p>I got an idea: you guys can even take advantage of it and put it on your college resumes. Here it goes: people (especially the group PETA) keep talking about how meat can be made without all the pain and suffering that is allegedly endured. I suggest someone use their funds and intellect to create a place (preferably PETA-approved) where meat can be made entirely humanely and then sell it, at whatever price is needed to be profitable. If some people will buy "organic" vegetables at a higher price than genetically modified food, than perhaps there's also some vegetarians who would be willing to eat meat if they knew the source they got it from treated it totally humanely. Or...they'll find out the meat tastes the same either way and one's a lot cheaper. But in business it doesn't matter if an idea is good or not, only if people will actually buy it.</p>
<p>I've already seen numerous things like those which that site details. Sure, it may not be PETA, but it's in the same boat -- a boat full of half-truths and propaganda.</p>
<p>What would it take to have something not be considered propaganda? If I found something from a major grocery store, would you consider that propaganda, too?</p>
<p>""I'd really be interested in what makes a diet homosexual.</p>
<p>When u say something is gay its just an expression, like such and such is stupid or pointless not that its homosexual.'"</p>
<p>I understand that, but the "expression" comes from the discrimination against the homosexual community, and many find it disrespectful when it is used in this context. Yes, gay also means "happy" or "bright", but to use the word in the manner above is derogatory. Would you use "Oh, that's so Jewish?" in the same context? Probably not.</p>
<p>It's unnecessary to take offense at such trivial things, september.</p>
<p>And regarding that grocery food thing...well that's just as bad lol. They are trying to promote their own "organic/humane" product. Of course they will play down the competition.</p>
<p>Mavin, read this and then get the hell out of here:</p>
<p>i didnt read alot of the posters comments, but alot of them were being *******s so i dont want to read it. but aside from that, ive been vegetarian all my life and vegan for a year. definitely do it because vegetarian is so much healthier. as long as you get your nutrients, then you will have a healthier diet with less focus on meat. make sure you get your protein, and take vitamins because your body might be used to having meat. if you can take it gradually, like don't just all of a sudden stop eating everything. go to whole food markets or organic stores and buy things like tofu, hummus (both are delicious) and make sure to check out information on websites about nutrients. also, go to <a href="http://www.peta2.com%5B/url%5D">www.peta2.com</a> (yay peta!) and they have a message board there just for food which is awesome to ask questions about. if you need any help, im more than welcome to talk to you, just PM me. :) good luck!</p>
<p>I don't know what Mavin is smoking. PETA and other related sites aren't propaganda. If you've ever driven by an actual slaughterhouse, you'll see how closely packed the animals are and how awful it smells. They are certainly not humane. It's truly an animal holocaust. I don't mind meat eaters, since most people do eat meat, but I despise the ones that make jokes about animals having a place right next to the mashed potatoes. Some people have no heart.</p>
<p>Mavin's a troll. Let's kick him out.
Actually, I say we take all people who are as stupid as Mavin and ignorant about animal suffering, ship 'em off to Australia and leave 'em there packed REAL close, like they pack the animals. Whaddya say?</p>
<p>I know about the KFC thing a while back, and I agree, that was cruelty. However, you need to consider the fact that those workers who committed those acts were not following policy. You can't generalize the entire meat industry because of a few rogue employees.</p>
<p>And if you don't think PETA is propaganda, then, well, what can I say? </p>
<p>Don't get me wrong here. There are certainly instances of animal cruelty in the meat industry. Certainly. Are they as widespread and extensive as PETA would have you believe? Not even close.</p>
<p>And crimson4me...if you want to call me a troll because you disagree with me, that's fine. However, I think some sort of constructive debate instead of juvenile name-calling would be a little more appropriate, don't you agree?</p>
<p>Main Entry: pro·pa·gan·da
Pronunciation: "prä-p&-'gan-d&, "prO-
Function: noun
1 capitalized : a congregation of the Roman curia having jurisdiction over missionary territories and related institutions
2 : the spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person
3 : ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect</p>
<p>seems to fit numbers 2 and 3 of the definition fairly well.</p>
<p><< Silly vegetarians >></p>
<p>I'm sorry, Mavin, I don't consider being called silly "constructive debate."
Besides, I don't see the point in a hardcore meateater (who thinks vegetarians are "silly") debating with hardcore vegetarians about vegetarianism. Is anyone really going to change their opinions or beliefs? Of course not.</p>
<p>wow... okay so there is cruelty in meat production and peta has a bunch of propaganda. What happened to helping some guy go vegan? Anyone wanna learn how to make some lentils and brown rice?</p>
<p>I'm not a hardcore "meateater." I just eat whatever I think tastes good, whether it be meat or not. I don't eat any kind of seafood because I don't like it. However, I don't go around labeling myself an "anti-seafooder."</p>
<p>And I know no one is going to change his/her opinions, but that doesn't mean debating it is pointless. I debate politics all the time, and the chances that anyone in the debate will actually change his/her opinion is very slim.</p>
<p>And there's a difference between calling a group "silly" once after having written at least a page of text on the subject and you, who just came in here and decided to throw some personal insults in your first post.</p>
<p>My point exactly. Let's stop right here with the polemics and help waglo. Please, if you want to debate it further, start a new thread. If you don't want to help, please leave.</p>