know age peers who did it for the first time in the back seat of a car on a double date in high school.
[/QUOTE]
There are just some things that self-respecting decent people do not do in front of bystanders…and having sex is one of them.
I did not need that detail, Harvestmoon. Ugh. That poor girl.
Reality is often not pretty.
Yeah, sex to me is a beautiful thing, but it is PERSONAL, it’s like a wonderful secret JUST BETWEEN US. I could never imagine doing something so incredibly intimate in front of others! Just doesn’t compute for me, though I know that other consenting adults have quite different takes on it. Some people get paid for doing it, some find it stimulating and satisfying, etc. Different strokes I guess.
Of course, all of this convo has to do with consenting adults, not rape victims as in the subject of the thread.
I’m not interested particularly in debating whether it is decent or not - just providing another data point for those who can’t imagine it, and may think we live in different, less decent times. I’m not condoning, just reporting.
A few observations:
Was this prosecution successful because someone else alerted the police, not the female victim? As the victim had no idea the attack had happened, until told, the argument that she was a willing partner couldn’t get started.
How isolated are athletes at Vanderbilt? As I look at the map, and search the web, it seems there’s an athletic center with training facilities, tutors, and a dining hall for athletes only. (Correct me if I’m wrong.) For how little of the day do athletes mingle with the rest of the student body? How many students in that particular dorm are athletes? Are team members placed near each other in the dorms?
Ironic that as a homeowner, I bear liability if an unwelcomed burglar breaks his leg while robbing my house.
Meanwhile, colleges that DELIBERATELY contract w young adults to occupy dorms, feel they are absolved of liability for injury that occurs on their premises?
@scholarme, those of us with strong ties to Vanderbilt have had this on our radar since summer of 2013 when the University took swift and conclusive action. Applications for the class of 2019 have set a new record, as I hear it. Even with the more widespread coverage from the trial, I doubt that Vandy’s numbers will take much of a hit since the University has been so responsible in their reaction. You can get a better sense of the reaction from Vanderbilt parents by reading this thread:http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/vanderbilt-university/1734801-does-vanderbilt-have-a-culture-of-promiscuity-and-rampant-underage-drinking-more-than-other-schools-p1.html @MOWC’s comments in particular add a helpful perspective.
Does anyone know if either sex-assault female victims were slipped some drug with the alcohol? Stanford or Vandy incidents?
The Vanderbilt victim was drugged.
I think faline1 posted this. I like this…
http://news.vanderbilt.edu/2015/01/zeppos-message-jan-27-verdict/
@HarvestMoon1 I think the family is in denial. I think they hear, believe and see what the things they want. I think they just see it as their son did not physically touch the girl. I think what the son did was just as bad. I really think he planned this. I don’t think they see it that way. i think they love their son and feel he made horrible mistake.
She may have been, but I don’t know that it has been confirmed that she was, has it? No question, though, that she was out cold.
Date rape drugs (“roofies”) appear to have been a factor in the recent Duke Alpha Delta Phi case, though I don’t think that’s been confirmed either.
How isolated are athletes at Vanderbilt? As I look at the map, and search the web, it seems there's an athletic center with training facilities, tutors, and a dining hall for athletes only. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) For how little of the day do athletes mingle with the rest of the student body? How many students in that particular dorm are athletes? Are team members placed near each other in the dorms?
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think the NCAA allows athletes to be in exclusive dorms. I think that their dorms must include some non-athletes. I know that at my kids’ undergrad, the football players are housed in an all-male dorm that engineers can choose as well.
Likely, athletes are placed in dorm rooms that are near each other, especially if coaches have to monitor curfews or “lights out” times.
I don’t know what the NCAA rules are for dining halls. I think some athletes may have a different meal plan because of the calories that they’re expected to consume.
http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2014/04/16/what-athletes-will-get-under-the-ncaas-new-food-rules.htm describes the change the NCAA made to athlete food provisions in April 2014. Athletes may get any regular student meal plan, plus additional food at the institution’s discretion.
Given the occurrences at Vanderbilt, Stanford, Hobart, etc, I am wondering which colleges will step up and be proactive in order to reduce the number of assaults on their campuses? This is devestating for the victims, and for the perpetrators’ families. It is expensive and potentially harmful to the universities. The people of Tennessee will be spending well over a million dollars for this trial, the appeal and the subsequent incarceration. Yet, if just one person had intervened, the pain to the victim, the trauma, and the expense all could have been avoided.
IMO colleges should address this issue head on, beginning with day one of orientation and periodically throughout 4 years. Male and female students together should have the opportunity to hear victims speak, as well as those who have intervened successfully. There should be discussions in groups, where males can hear the viewpoints of females and vice versa. Just as a designated driver has become culturally acceptable when going out, frats and sororities ought to have a designated sober person who has the specific responsibility to step in when behavior appears to be crossing the line.
MADD helped change the culture on drinking and driving. Campus sexual assaults can be reduced as well, if there is the will.
Sororities already encourage sisters to look out for one another, have a designated sober, travel in packs, etc.
The Vanderbilt story has nothing to do with the Greek system.
Colleges will maintain the status quo by merely “reacting” to incidents, at their own risk (and to the risk of their young female students). It is obvious that one of the most vulnerable populations on campus is the newly arrived female first-year student, who does not yet have sorority sisters to watch her back. This was the case at Hobart. Proactive training is needed, and it should begin with the athletic teams and in the Greek system.
MidwestDad3 ~ agreed that proactive training is needed. That and stiff penalties (both academically and legally) is a good start.