<p>@RML:</p>
<p>There are many better schools for undergraduate science than Harvard. Just because it is Harvard, it does not mean that it has the best program in every field. Although Harvard is strong at the sciences, I feel there are many schools with a lot stronger undergraduate programs in the field, such as the ones mentioned. Harvard engineering is not that great either.</p>
<p>In the Ivy League, I think that Princeton, Yale, and UPenn offer the best undergraduate science programs.</p>
<p>
What a laughable post. You clearly know nothing about Harvard or its science programs.*</p>
<p>NSF Fellow Production
1 Harvard 717
2 MIT 679
3 Stanford 457
4 Princeton 374
5 Cornell 350
6 Yale 278
7 Brown 264
8 Rice 245
9 Duke 205
10 Chicago 184</p>
<p>Physics PhD Production
1 California Institute of Technology 221
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 80
3 Princeton University 30
**4 Harvard University 25<a href=“#8%20including%20LACs”>/b</a></p>
<p>Chemistry PhD Production
1 California Institute of Technology 42
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 27
3 College of William and Mary 18
4 University of Chicago 16
5 Harvard University 12</p>
<p>Math PhD Production
1 California Institute of Technology 107
2 Massachusetts Institute of Technology 63
**3 Harvard University 32<a href=“#4%20including%20LACs”>/b</a></p>
<p>*If that comes across as rude, so be it. I’m tired of people posting nonsense about schools with which they are clearly unfamiliar, particularly people who are transparently trying to promote their own colleges.</p>
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<p>The OP is “specifically considering physical sciences.”</p>
<p>For physics, Hopkins is ok. Duke and Dartmouth are mediocre. Tufts is terrible.</p>
<p>[Rankings</a> - Physics - Graduate Schools - Education - US News and World Report](<a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-physics-schools/rankings]Rankings”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-physics-schools/rankings)</p>
<p>Harvey Mudd is a great school for science and engineering education and it will not figure in most lists as it is considered a LAC (even though they are science and engineering) and they are only undergraduate, so no Ph.D’s awarded.</p>
<p>@IBClass06:</p>
<p>First of all, I was referring to Harvard’s undergraduate science programs. Harvard’s graduate and phD programs in the sciences are definitely among the cream of the crop, which is supported by your data. Harvard Medical School definitely produces some of the most important scientific discoveries. However, although some benefits of having a top-tier grad program spill over to the undergrad program, it does not mean that the undergrad programs are just as good as the grad programs. Many of the professors that teach graduates or do hard core science research are not involved with teaching undergrads at Harvard, so your data is moot to my point. I’m not saying Harvard’s undergrad sciences are weak; of course, they are very strong, but I believe there are many schools that will offer better science programs, at least for undergrads.</p>
<p>I do know something about Harvard, as a matter of fact. I visited their campus, pored through their viewbook, had an interview with an alumnus, and applied there. It is definitely one of the best schools in the country. Nevertheless, I feel it is overranked: it is not as good as it is cracked up to be, at least for undergrad level. Both of my guidance counselors agree with it being overranked, and they have been involved with college counseling for the past 30+ years. Even though I don’t go to a specific school, I still have the right to have this opinion and can share it with others. Unless you went to Harvard, work at Harvard, or know someone really well who went there, I do not think you are qualified to say that you know more about Harvard than other posters on this site. Nevertheless, I will agree with you that I probably should have looked at some data before making my point, which I will do in the future. I will make sure I don’t come off as ignorant next time.</p>
<p>And what’s wrong with having school spirit? Rice is a great university, but I am not saying Rice is the best school in the country either. Although it is an undergraduate focused university, I agree it is not on the level of Harvard or Stanford, but I strongly believe it is close. Too many high school students applying to college aim only for the Ivies, Stanford, or MIT. But there are so many other top-notch universities out there that people don’t know about, and I am just trying to spread the word.</p>
<p>Also, I only write in threads in which Rice will be a relevant good option for the person. This is a “college search and selection” forum, and I am just giving a recommendation that can be further researched. Along with the LACs, Rice is a school that deserves more respect and prestige than it actually gets. I always give recommendations of other relevant schools as well.</p>
<p>Finally, everyone on college confidential acts like an expert; I’m not the only one. I don’t care if you have a college degree or a master’s degree… the opinions of current college students (although we may not be as experienced and wise) are just as relevant because we just went through the application process and we are currently experiencing college academics/college life. </p>
<p>Anyway, I am not going to derail this thread any further. To the OP, there are many good options out there for science programs, as you can see. Look into all the suggestions given to you so far.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m not understanding something, but the OP has asked for “cool” science universities, but many of the suggestions have been for super-competititive, cut-throat colleges where the “best of the best” fight it out to be number one in the class. </p>
<p>I asked the OP - "do you mean a school that is a good school, but isn’t some “pressure cooker” environment where everyone is super competitive and high-strung? " The OP agreed with that.</p>
<p>The OP still hasn’t given his stats. Some of these suggestions might not even work if his stats are good, but not stellar.</p>
<p>OP…We still need to know your stats. </p>
<p>SAT
M ____ CR ______ W_____</p>
<p>ACT</p>
<p>GPA weighted and unweighted.</p>
<p>I don’t remember you mentioned your home state, if not, what is it?</p>
<p>Slik Nik, I still think that Harvard’s physical science department is in the top echelon of the best of the very best science schools on earth. I would personally rank it number one. As a whole, it is next to none. MIT, Stanford, Berkeley, Princeton and Cambridge are all fighting for the next best school for science. Harvard still attracts the best students who are interested to study science (biology, chemistry, math and physics). It’s enrollment yield is unbeatable. engineering is another story altogether.</p>
<p>Cornell University!!!</p>
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<p>When we refer to “Ph.D. Production” or “Ph.D. Productivity” in the context of discussions like this, we usually are referring to the number of undergraduates who go on to earn Ph.D.s I assume IB was citing such data from a source such as the HEDS Consortium. If so, he’s saying that Harvard College produced the Nth highest number of graduates who went on to earn Ph.D.s in each of these science fields (for whatever window of time these numbers represent; however adjusted, if at all, for school population size). </p>
<p>That is, “Ph.D. Productivity” typically is cited as an indicator of undergraduate program quality. Appropriately, in my opinion. Though Harvard College is larger than CalTech and virtually all LACs, and the numbers on the right in IB’s list appear to be absolute numbers (unadjusted for populations), aggregated over a period of several years. If you adjust for school size, I’d expect Harvard to be somewhere in the #10-#20 range for some of these fields (bested by quite a few little LACs). But then, that would not account for the relative number of top science grads who go on to med school etc., not Ph.D. programs. Perhaps Harvard science students drop out, in disproportionate numbers, to found wildly successful software companies, or some such.</p>
<p>Thanks again for all the suggestions guys! I’m definitely going to look further into a lot of the school’s you’ve listed.
I’m a white female from NYC. I haven’t taken the SAT yet, and the PSAT scores have yet to come in. 
I know that I got 1 CR and 1 M wrong, and I would say I got a max of three wrong after that (probably less), but I’m going to study a lot more! So I’ll estimate my SAT scores at 2300+ (praying for a perfect score!). I’m a bit confused by the gpa conversion, but it appears to be about 3.99 (should I just round that up?), and the weighted one will be higher once APs get factored in. My problem is that I am deficient in ECs. I am hoping the fact that I go to art school will balance that out a bit, and I’m desperately searching for more science-and-math-related ECs! I’m not at all the type of person who is the president of multiple clubs, etc. etc., and I feel like there probably are a lot of those people going to top schools. There are some really great colleges out there, and I think that I have at least a shot to get into some of them, but they would obviously all be reaches. I also see that once you get in to the top schools, a lot of them might be more collaborative and less competitive (e.g. MIT grades Pass/No Record and then A/B/C/No Record freshman year), but I feel like I might not completely fit in with a lot of the amazing people who go there! Right now I’m trying to find some matches, which might be more laid-back, but they still have to be good schools. Sorry for the rant-ish post!</p>
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<p>I haven’t taken the SAT yet, </p>
<p>and the PSAT scores have yet to come in. I know that I got 1 CR and 1 M wrong, and I would say I got a max of three wrong after that (probably less), but I’m going to study a lot more! So I’ll estimate my SAT scores at 2300+ (praying for a perfect score!). </p>
<p>I’m a bit confused by the gpa conversion, but it appears to be about 3.99 (should I just round that up?), and the weighted one will be higher once APs get factored in. </p>
<p>My problem is that I am deficient in ECs. </p>
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<p>Ok…so you’re a junior, right? That’s a relief since you still have plenty of time to find schools. :)</p>
<p>Haha if I were a senior I’d be so screwed! I plan on having my list done well before then so that I have plenty of time to write essays and the like… I’m trying to avoid as much stress as possible! ;)</p>
<p>
No, my numbers were per capita. People usually underestimate how intellectual Harvard actually is. </p>
<p>Very few LACs come ahead. In math Harvard is bested only by Mudd. In physics, Harvard is bested only by Mudd, Carleton, and Reed. That said, Harvard does not exactly have a relaxed atmosphere, which I why I would not recommend it for the OP.</p>
<p>mom2collegekids – Thanks for getting us back on track. There are indeed many relaxed schools strong in the sciences (e.g. Hope, K-zoo) that might be appropriate for the OP, depending on his interests and stats.</p>