I went to a SEC school and have lived in college towns around the country. Greek culture in the South is boujee. They go big and fancy.
In my experience alcohol and drug use varies by school and specific greek org, but the places where there is nothing else to do and it gets cold in the winter are where things are the worst.
Greek life at Wofford dominates the social scene. If someone is unlucky enough not to get a bid, it severely affects their time at the school given the small student body.
Then Davidson might want to revise how it fills out the Common Data Set. Section F1 of its CDS indicates that 49% of female undergrads are in sororities.
Davidson lists the eating houses under “Greek Life”, so this is probably about semantics. Fraternity & Sorority Life (Patterson Court Council) | Davidson
At some schools the athletic teams control a significant portion of the social scene.
I have heard similarly about Wofford and know a student who transferred out because of it. The student was a member of Greek life there but didn’t like some of the behavior that they witnessed and felt they would ostracized if they chose to leave Greek life but remain at Wofford.
Both daughters joined sororities at large ACC universities. Definitely doesn’t dominate at either school (although both schools are in the south, the ACC schools seem to be less intense than the SEC). At my older daughter’s school, they didn’t even wear Greek “colors”, so it was almost impossible to tell who was and who wasn’t, except at home football games where they would sometimes wear a small metal button with their Greek letters on it.
As well as WUSTL and McMaster in Canada. One of my sons currently attends McMaster. They don’t have any frats anymore. Overall Greek life isn’t that common at Canadian universities though they, and sororities, still exist at the school I attended, Western. I wouldn’t be surprised to find them at Queen’s either. They continue to be problematic from time to time.
And the Eating Houses really are not like sororities. You self-select for one thing. The Eating House doesn’t issue bids. There’s no rush. No house to live in together. They just do service stuff and eat together. I’m not sure why they are listed that way on the CDS. I guess they wanted to indicate that they joined something?
Duke has been trying to rein in its frats for years, especially after the wildly irresponsible behavior during the pandemic. Unfortunately, most of the frats have simply moved off campus in response, so they’re no longer held to the same standards and requirements as the IFC-affiliated frats on campus.
I think eventually Duke is going to have to ban Greek life altogether. There’ll be unhappy alumni, but Duke needs to grow beyond relying on Greek life and basketball to distinguish itself from the other top universities, especially since Durham (somewhat unfairly) is not considered a desirable or trendy location.
Many of us CC old-timers remember the tragic story of a Cornell student who used to post on CC. He drank heavily and insisted this was not an issue since he kept his grades up and knew his limits. He wound up drinking himself to death at a frat party at UVA. Sadly, not an uncommon tale.
I don’t know if Duke will ever get rid of frats altogether, but they have been working on it. The Duke frats were horrible during the pandemic, having parties during lockdown, etc.
BTW, I think Durham is a pretty desirable location! Tons of people moving in all the time.
Harvard tried that and had to concede the law suits. They weren’t even official school groups and Harvard couldn’t keep students from belonging to Greek organizations (or other single sex organizations).
And here it is. What a tragic loss - he’s described as being brilliant. From what you’ve said that he posted on CC, sounds as if he was an alcoholic who died of alcohol poisoning at a very young age.
is there any concern that by eliminating parties on campus, it forces students to go do their drinking off campus instead? and detracts from the campus-centric college environment? also a by-product of this might be that the rich get to party since they can afford the clubs and bars and the Ubers or cars to get to them, and the less-than-rich are shut out, widening that gap between the haves and have-nots even more? not to mention the increased possibility of drinking and driving…
kids will drink. they are kids. maybe keeping it on campus where there can be a little supervision isn’t such a bad thing? yes, the over-the-top frat-related drinking, and the hazing rituals, needs to be reigned in. I’m just saying by fully eliminating Greek life we might see consequences we won’t like.
The degrees with the highest starting salaries (engineering and CS) generally have the lowest participation in traditional Greek life.
Yes. Chris Miller '63, who was in Alpha Delta.
I don’t think you can jump to that conclusion.
Many colleges have off campus housing adjacent to the school so it’s as easy or easier to party at the apartment complex as it would be to party at the frat house. Most college kids should not be able to get in bars as they are under 21 but if they do have a good fake ID again many bars are walking distance from campus and off campus apartment complexes.
I’m more concerned about drugs than alcohol.
deleted
That’s the argument for keeping frats as student groups, that some supervision is better than none. At CU, the frats were ‘thrown’ off campus after a hazing incident ended in the death of a pledge. The houses were never on campus and always privately owned, but when they were student groups there was some oversight. Once they were no longer student groups, it was up to their alums (and insurance companies) to supervise. They’ve existed that way for 15 or 20 years. They don’t care if the university doesn’t recognize them.
If the fraternities’ houses are off campus, then college supervision of the fraternities is limited, since the fraternities can abandon campus recognition if the college wants them to abide by rules that they do not want to abide (as happened en masse at University of Colorado, and has happened to some chapters at some other campuses).
Private schools may have more leeway making rules in the other direction in disallowing student participation in outside organizations. For example, Princeton disallows frosh from joining fraternities and sororities, and Amherst disallows all student participation in fraternities and sororities.
No doubt.
However, I wonder if there is a correlation between the somewhat “submissive” application process (where some impressionable teenagers feel they have to go along with whatever tasking is demanded), followed by an “elitarian” feeling of being among a “chosen few” - thus having earned the perceived backing of like-minded. Some might feel superior, entitled, and untouchable - lowering the bar for reprehensible acts that they would never have considered as part of a regular community, without the concentrating effect of the U.S. “Greek” culture (my apologies to actual Greece.)
That was actually one of the few questions my daughter asked during college visits!
Some colleges seemed to have “outsourced” social life, even housing and dining to some degree, to membership organizations - which is great for those who can afford to “play the game”, or who are willing to compromise their principles to submit to whatever application/initiation rituals - even harmless ones, like having to purchase specific outfits for various nights during “rush”.
And while there might be other token clubs and organizations, they might be perceived as being for those who lost out in popularity contests, and the plebians.
She was far too independent-minded to choose between letting (what she perceived to be) an elitist, ranked and exclusionary clique system “organize” her social contacts, live, activities and dress code - else be left out of much of the social scene. (She also had avoided the “popularity” game during high school, being very happy with a some looser, some tighter friends circle of 10 or so.)
My daughter was looking for a culture of primarily “egalitarian”, spontaneous social life among the vast majority of the student body, without systemic peer pressure (while realizing, of course, that even admittance to some colleges is anything but egalitarian.)
At the end, she enrolled in an Ivy League University, where <10% of undergraduates are Greek members, available to those who do seek it, but completely inconsequential to the vast majority of students who are indifferent.