<p>i'm from california and in the academic world amherst seems to have a better reputation than cornell.</p>
<p>"Im really still search and thats why Im speaking with you all. My consience tells me I will be making my parents waste money unjustly while I seem to be falling for Cornells hype.</p>
<p>How is Amherst's reputation up north? I dont want to make a decision I will end up regretting."</p>
<p>Well, it certainly seems like you value going to a well-known school over going to a better school and saving your parents money.</p>
<p>go to Amherst!! thats an awesome school. oh how i hate people who know nothing outside of the ivy league bubble (my parents are the same way unfortunately and i'm from new york...they don't even know what cornell is!)</p>
<p>but yeah..basically if you know you're gonna go to grad school and end up paying more for your education down the road...why wouldn't you go to amherst if you $ave plus you'd be better prepared, as the general trend seems to be with the LACs? besides, the AEM program at cornell isn't too fancy compared to other places (most people don't even know cornell has undergrad business)..if you got into amherst it makes me wonder if you couldve gone to some bigger and better places (for business i mean).</p>
<p>ultimately, you'll have to decide and i think THE NAME matters to you more. i personally would be amherst for undergrad and then just go on to harvard business school later on...its that easy.</p>
<p>simple-------------amherst</p>
<p>Ya so I agree with bigboy. Go to Amherst (if that's where u want to go)...you'll be able to spend the money on a really good grad school down the line. If it is all just a ploy cuz u want to go to Cornell, then go to Cornell. Go where you'll be the most happy, both have a lot of prestige within America, especially if u r going to grad school in America after. Either way is great!</p>
<p>To be honest, I think Amherst is a great undergraduate experience, though it does severely lack in reputation. I moved from Los Angeles to New York and for some reason not many in either place really seemed to know how good of a school it is. Though, this is the same problem many LAC's face. </p>
<p>"Amherst has arguably better academics."
Hmmm ... no. Few schools can match Cornell's huge course selection and variety of majors, all of which are considered among the top few in the US. If you disagree, please explain what criterion you cite. </p>
<p>"Better grad placement"
i dont know the truth behind this, but for the OP, this won't matter much. What will matter is recruitment into top business fields. This will play a huge role when it comes time to get that MBA. I dont have any data on recruitment at Amherst, though I am certain that the AEM program is recruited heavily by companies from all over the US. </p>
<p>"more prestigious (as measured by difficulty in admissions, etc.)"
i suppose, but not when you consider overall reputation in the US and across the world. </p>
<p>"Amherst is absolutely a more elite college."
elite, yes, but more elite? That's splitting the hairs, at best. </p>
<p>I would look up recruitment information on the schools. See where you can land the best jobs ... this is more important than the 'strength of the student body' argument. Regardless, I'd probably choose amherst if it is significantly cheaper and Cornell will plunge you in debt.</p>
<p>i would go for amherst...just because i would be getting an amazing education without my parents having to pay a lot of money....and actually amherst does have a great reputation. i live in CA and i have heard about amherst. my friend in england has heard about amherst. </p>
<p>and honestly, (i know some will disagree) but actually i think amherst has better quality academics. so when youre concerned about rep, youre thinking about NOW...who knows, by the time youre looking for a job, amhersts rep will be better than cornell's?</p>
<p>"and honestly, (i know some will disagree) but actually i think amherst has better quality academics"</p>
<p>what do you base that statement on? just curious!</p>
<p>If you (the OP) are having a hard time convincing your parents of Amherst's prestige, crack open an edition of USNews. You'll find that Amherst is currently #2 (I think) and has continuously been in the top 3 for MANY years. </p>
<p>Prestige aside, I would go to Amherst just because you're getting aid and I think you'd get a more personalized education, i.e. better.</p>
<p>In the U.S., the Ivy League comes from some top academic colleges and universities that play football together. That's all it is. So they are world famous.
As an undergrad, all you have to do is compare the average SAT's for incoming students of Cornell and Amherst and you'll immediately see higher stats for Amherst.
Course selection is large because Amherst, while under 2,000 students, is in the Five College Community, so anything you can't take there you can get from Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Hampshire or Univ. of Mass, on a free five-college shuttle bus. For example, my son knew of a particular prof over at Smith who taught playwriting, so it was worth travelling over there. You just schedule it in. So look at all the courses of all 5 colleges, and I think it'd compare to Cornell's large course selection.
Amherst might be #2 Liberal Arts College this year, but it's been #1 or 2 for the past 7 years or so; WIlliams and Amherst just keep trading places for that spot.
Really I think you're experiencing the difference between the prestige of a university (with its grad students who can publish, its many departments..) versus the Liberal Arts College. Do you know how great it is to have 4 years without any teaching assitants, just pure professors? Classes of 20 or 30 tops as the norm? It's the joy of the undergraduate-only experience but of them all, Amherst is the Top or Second-To-top in the US in that category. Once they finish their four years, the Amherst grads have a ticket to anywhere..including Cornell, Harvard etc. for grad school because it is Amherst. Same with Williams, Swarthmore and perhaps l0 other top Liberal Arts Colleges.
In the US, Amherst (founded some hundreds of years ago) was modelled after the British residential colleges rather than the European urban universities (like Notre Dame in Paris). The idea was to know your profs well, and vice-versa. To give you the flavor, if any 7 Amherst kids get together and want to take their prof out to a meal to talk with him/her, the college pays (not sure if that's for the prof or the entire gathering).
My son attended and he said whenever there was anything to work out (on the administrative level, with financial aid, for housing...) he always found people patient, calm, ready to listen and solve the problem. Not a big buereaucracy.
Cornell is a fine university, but not THE finest, in the U.S. Looked at differently, Amherst is THE top, or second-to-top Liberal Arts College (four year, undergraduate only) in the US (U.S.News and WOrld Reports ranking).
The better preparation others refer to could be because of the close communication (starting from freshman year) with the professors.
So you're comparing an apple with an orange, both good but different.</p>
<p>I've been in many different sized classes at Cornell - from 300 to 11. Unfortunately, I fail to see the correlation between class size and the quality of the class and teaching itself. A great professor will make a much larger difference than the number of other students in a class. I mean, I don't need to be pampered by a prof. in the middle of every class. I guess the difference lies in a students initiative if they need that extra attention by a professor and they (for some reason) can't raise their hand in the middle of 50 other people or feel bad for asking a professor a question after class or in the middle of office hours. Luckily, the vast majority of classes at Cornell have less than 50 students. </p>
<p>I tend to rank 'better' academics by reputation of programs, reputation of professors, research funding, and the quality of research programs available. I don't know how Amherst ranks here, though Cornell is easily among the top few in the US when it comes to undergraduate research.</p>
<p>The whole grade school argument is true for others, but probably not completely true for you since you are a business major</p>
<p>since you are an AEM major, you will most likely be able to get a fantastic job right out of college and join a fantastic mba program no problem...cornell will train you for the business world. Amherst is a liberal arts college and therefore, isn't geared towards applied fields.</p>
<p>only because you are an AEM major, i say cornell</p>
<p>good point. If you don't intend to go to graduate school for an MBA or whatever, Cornell is my pick. However, if you DO intend to go to a graduate school, Amherst is one of the best at placing its students in top programs and considerably better at this task than Cornell.</p>
<p>"Do you know how great it is to have 4 years without any teaching assitants, just pure professors?"
Yes. Wait, I'm not at Amherst, sorry. </p>
<p>"Classes of 20 or 30 tops as the norm?"
yes. sorry, again. </p>
<p>"Once they finish their four years, the Amherst grads have a ticket to anywhere..including Cornell"
Or you can just go to Cornell right now. </p>
<p>"To give you the flavor, if any 7 Amherst kids get together and want to take their prof out to a meal to talk with him/her, the college pays (not sure if that's for the prof or the entire gathering)."
I love it when the LAC fans bring up situations like this. For what it's worth, in my FIRST semester at Cornell, I had dinner with the dean of my school, with 2 different professors on 2 different occasions, lunch with bill nye (yes, the science guy), and dinner with bill nye. What a welcome that was at Cornell, and this has continued every semester since. </p>
<p>I still think fit is probably the most important factor, though.</p>
<p>"Amherst is one of the best at placing its students in top programs and considerably better at this task than Cornell."</p>
<p>Amherst doesn't come close to Cornell in the available high calubur research opportunities, though ... a nearly necessary component to graduate school. I'd say that Amherst is certainly one of the best at placing students, but not "considerably better." Both share excellent reputations. </p>
<p>Don't worry about paying for an MBA, they're usually paid for by big companies. That is, as long as you can land the job in the field you want.</p>
<p>I also plan to pursue a career in business and I plan to go straight to the working world after college, gain experience, and THEN pursue an MBA (which will hopefully be paid for by my company)</p>
<p>some of the best companies in the WORLD recruit at Cornell, so if you are a decent student in the AEM problem, landing a good job will be no problem</p>
<p>this all really depends on what your future plans are</p>
<p>do plan to go to grad school RIGHT after your undergrad? then go to Amherst
but, if you have plans like me, then go to Cornell...you'll get a fabulous undergrad degree, which in the business world is often all you really need, and there is a strong probability that you will be able to have the cost for your MBA covered by your company</p>
<p>Amherst foots the bill for the students and the prof as well. The college president also invited us to our home. It's cozy here. If you don't dig that (many people don't) by all means, go to Cornell. But you'd be wacked if you thought you were getting a better education.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but not "considerably better."
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No, I really think it is. In the somewhat infamous Wall Street Journal feeder report, Amherst placed 9th among schools that send their students on to top professional schools with 7.66% going on directly to one of the big law, medical, or business schools. Cornell is nowhere to be found on the list of 50 schools. Obviously, Cornell is a great school with amazing research opportunities, and since this list doesn't take into account actual graduate programs (only professional), Cornell may be lacking. However, if the OP does intend to go onto one of the best business schools, this list is relevant, as are its findings with relation to Cornell vs. Amherst's placements of students into top MBA programs.</p>
<p>"No, I really think it is. In the somewhat infamous Wall Street Journal feeder report, Amherst placed 9th among schools that send their students on to top professional schools with 7.66% going on directly to one of the big law, medical, or business schools. Cornell is nowhere to be found on the list of 50 schools."
Cornell ranked 25th on the list. (see: <a href="http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://wsjclassroom.com/pdfs/wsj_college_092503.pdf</a>)</p>
<p>Also, as a note, that shouldn't be unexpected. The ranking was caluclated by looking at the students of the med programs of Columbia, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, the University of California, San Francisco, and Yale, the MBA programs of Chicago, Dartmouth's Tuck School, Harvard, MIT's Sloan School, and Penn's Wharton School, and the law programs of Chicago, Columbia, Harvard, Michigan, and Yale. Also, as a note, the data for 6 of these 15 schools was estimated by employing facebook.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, regardless of the arbitrary nature of using the aforementioned 15 programs as standards of excellence, it shouldn't be expected for Cornell to be ranked high as the ranking is based on Cornell's ratio of students currently enrolled in the aforementioned 15 programs versus Cornell's overall student body size. Cornell has a wide variety of majors (bigger than most schools) and 5 colleges with unique specialization that are not generally found at other universities, so most of the undergrads likely don't attempt to go into business, law or medicine which would obviously lead to a small ratio. </p>
<p>It's unfortunate that Cornell's wide variety of course offerings makes it look staistically weak...</p>
<p>As a note, Cornell's raw score from the Wall Street ranking is actually over three times Amherst's.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Cornell has a wide variety of majors (bigger than most schools) and 5 colleges with unique specialization that are not generally found at other universities, so most of the undergrads likely don't attempt to go into business, law or medicine which would obviously lead to a small ratio.
[/quote]
which is why you can't compare whether cornell or an LAC sends more kids to grad schools. obviously, the LAC. i mean, what realistic person will settle for a degree in say, anthropology, straight out of college? surviving is getting expensive :</p>