Cornell or Dartmouth (For Business or Economics)

<p>I have always felt that Dartmouth is more academically respected than Cornell and that it has happier students and would be more fun and its students are more proud to be part of Dartmouth than the students are proud to be part of Cornell and all that encapsulates. Dartmouth has more of an LAC feel, so it makes sense that its professors are more involved with their classes and the students than other interests. To the the extent you can trust the WSJ feeder rankings, Dartmouth does do a fair amount better than Cornell (something like #6 vs #25). </p>

<p>I'm surprised slipper hasn't chimed in on this one.</p>

<p>Someone chime in on how many/to what degree profs teach classes, hold discussions, etc. at Cornell.</p>

<p>How would I consider how the AEM in particular compares to dartmouth econ as far as grad placement.</p>

<p>Does anyone at Dmouth get bored or feel isolated with a fairly small school and city?</p>

<p>More about econ vs. biz? I've already read most of the threads on the site on this though...</p>

<p>Trying to decide if I should buy a plane ticket...</p>

<p>To me, you sound like a very focused and driven person. It sounds like cornell's AEM fits you perfectly, while you're not so sure what you would do at Dartmouth. I think you should definitely visit Dartmouth to make sure you don't pass up falling in love with your true match, but to me, you seem to fit better in at Cornell.</p>

<p>Go2:</p>

<p>I'm a biological engineer at Cornell. From what I heard the AEM program is great. Ranked 12 in the nation for undergraduate business programs. Check out their website: <a href="http://aem.cornell.edu/flash.htm%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://aem.cornell.edu/flash.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>The role of TAs at Cornell is identical to that of Dartmouth (They do review sessions, and oversee labs, see below). I don't think you're really going to have to worry about class size in AEM, the intro classes are fairly large for most majors, I can't tell you exactly how big, it depends how many are in the program. Once you start taking specialized classes, the size cuts down.</p>

<p>There are a lot of people posting about the "prestige difference" of the two colleges, but I don't think there is much of a difference, if any between the quality of the schools. In fact, internationally, Cornell has far more name recongnition. More importantly, there is a much larger alumni network (and as seen on the AEM website, there is an active AEM alumni network). They're both great schools, but very different. </p>

<p>Responses to previous statements:</p>

<p>""well, I know nothing about Cornell profs, but at Dartmouth they certainly deserve their high ranking. Part of the reason Cornell may have a lower ranking is that here, NO classes are taught by TAs (although they do hold review sessions before things are due, grade homeworks, etc.). I'm not sure what the situation is at Cornell.""</p>

<p>The role of TAs at Cornell is Exactly the same as the role you described at Dartmouth. TAs don't teach classes, they do review sessions and oversee labs. It sounds like the same is the case at Dartmouth.</p>

<p>"its students are more proud to be part of Dartmouth than the students are proud to be part of Cornell and all that encapsulates."</p>

<p>Clearly you haven't talked to many Cornell students...(or been to a Cornell Hockey game, lol). I probably sound a little defensive on this one, but most people are really proud to go to school here. It's really common to have whole families come to Cornell...and I've even heard of alum having the alma mater played at their funeral (I thought that was really cool!)</p>

<p>"Clearly you haven't talked to many Cornell students...(or been to a Cornell Hockey game, lol). I probably sound a little defensive on this one, but most people are really proud to go to school here. It's really common to have whole families come to Cornell...and I've even heard of alum having the alma mater played at their funeral (I thought that was really cool!"</p>

<p>i agree completely. The alumni network is extremely strong, I've gotten some really sweet internships with Cornell alumni whom are always there to support students. </p>

<p>Also, professors are required to teach all courses. The only courses that will be taught by a TA are the freshmen writing seminar that all freshmen have to take. Each class is limited to 15 or so students, and I dont think there's enough professors at Cornell available to teach this many classes!</p>

<p>Another thing to consider: the AEM program is very highly ranked even though it has only been in operation for a few years. It keep moving up and up in the rankings as each year passes. Imagine what the program will be like and how hard it will be to get into after it has been more established after 10 or so years. I would imagine your degree would become extremely valuable. </p>

<p>If you have a hunch for Cornell, then go there. If you're uncertain, then visit Dartmouth. Whatever you do, DO NOT decide on Dartmouth without first visiting the school. Either way, you can't really go wrong. Though if your heart is at Cornell, you will not regret your decision at all.</p>

<p>"If you have a hunch for Cornell, then go there. If you're uncertain, then visit Dartmouth. Whatever you do, DO NOT decide on Dartmouth without first visiting the school. Either way, you can't really go wrong. Though if your heart is at Cornell, you will not regret your decision at all."</p>

<p>Thanks gome, thanks St. I'm starting to think a visit isn't neccesary.</p>

<p>Here's my two cents, much of it comes from a point of view you might not have thought about:</p>

<p>Academics:
Cornell is a research institution, Dartmouth is an undergraduate focused school. But the things that matter in business - alumni network, recruiting, reputation, community (how well you know your own classmates), selectivity (this is much of your future network) - are the things that Dartmouth excels at. If you look at the number of recruiters from "elite" firms recruiting on campus, Dartmouth has almost twice as many compared to Cornell, coming from a much smaller school. If you look at graduate placement, Dartmouth is much closer to Princeton than it is to Cornell when it comes to placing grads in top MBA programs. The reasons for this are likely because Dartmouth has alot of credibility with the "old boys" club, which exists much less today but seems to have lasting effects on the strength of the school when it comes to alumni networks, recruiting, etc. Ten years ago Dartmouth was a much harder place to get into than Cornell, so its reputation in the communties that matter persists. Its the same reason as to why Wash U might be a great school, but in the business its still not close to many of the Ivies in terms of reputation. In business, you want to go with the horse with more momentum, and in this case its Dartmouth.</p>

<p>Cornell has an "international" reputation edge, but this edge is for a chinese student looking to do hardcore science research. Dartmouth's edge is in the United States in the industries that matter.</p>

<p>An additional benefit to Dartmouth is you'll get to study Econ, which is theoretical and in my mind much more fun than AEM, but you'll be racing for the same job. Truthfully, in the elite industries and undergraduate business degree is far from Critical, and I would argue that at elite firms outside of Wharton there is no edge to undergrad business over econ at a top 10 school.</p>

<p>SOCIAL: (taken from another post I wrote)</p>

<p>Dartmouth is full of some of the most happy go-lucky, down to earth, brilliant people anywhere. </p>

<p>The biggest difference between these two schools is Dartmouth feels very much like a a LAC. Its also one of the most unique schools in america. Most people at Dartmouth love it, and with good reason. </p>

<p>I'll give a personal example: Dartmouth paid for my thesis research in the pacific ($10K), gave me TWO thesis advisors, I had 7 classes with less than 5 people, and when I started a company they gave me office space and a whole network of contacts + access to funding! How many schools do that for their students? I had lunch with Ang Lee with 5 other kids, met Broken Lizard (Super Troopers and other movies), etc in my film classes. For my "outer space" class I met with astronauts and every lunch they took 10 kids out with the guest speaker who was often amazing. I probably have visited 7 Professors houses. </p>

<p>Dartmouth is hopping every weekend and people are very inclusive- everyone is invited everywhere and people are all out at once. It feels sort of "festive" on the weekends. Also, Dartmouth has a "big weekend" every term, people love getting excited about the place. Dartmouth students embrace the environment and the beautiful campus: they also play in the snow in the winters, jump in the river in summers, have a ski slope, run around bonfires, and hsng out and act silly in dorms. Its a laid-back environment, and its a total 'college experience.' </p>

<p>The D-plan is a major distinguishing factor - and a plus in my book. Study abroad is HUGE at Dartmouth (2/3 study abroad, 1/3 go THREE terms), but what makes it special once again is Dartmouth's special way of interacting with its students. At other schools to go abroad requires signing up for a program run through another school. At Dartmouth, 100% of the students on your program are Dartmouth students, you get a professor as an advisor on your trip, you go on special excursions every weekend with that professor, and there are trips, etc with the whole group. Dartmouth feels like the opposite of the red-tape bureuacracy you get at other schools.</p>

<p>Sophomore summer is also a great part of the experience. You get to know your entire class, and make friendships that last a lifetime in a laid-back, "summer camp" feeling environment. Lots of jumping into the river, parties under the stars, etc.</p>

<p>Cornell is a larger school with more access to research, but less of the undergraduate focus and coddling. The town of Ithaca is more fun than Hanover, so the social scene has more options but less community. this also makes it more cliquey than Dartmouth but this might be good if you like cliquey scenes (i.e. minority groups hanging out together, etc).</p>

<p>Thanks for the thoughtful post. Shoot, this is a difficult call, maybe I'll fly down there to give it a more fair chance. I don't like cliquy scenes but I thought CU would have the social advantage because there are so many different people doing different things.</p>

<p>Hey,</p>

<p>Ill go to college, one thing socially though is that some people actually like cliquey scenes. I am a minority myself (indian), but I like hanging out with everyone. Dartmouth was great for me, as I knew most of the other Indians and we hung out, but it wasn't our only scene. This was great for me, but I think some of my Indian friends from NYC and Chicago missed the cliquish scenes that they had experienced in their cities. I think Cornell would be a better fit for that person (although Penn, Columbia, or Harvard would be even better!) Cornell is over 3 times bigger than Dartmouth so people have a chance to group off more, while at Dartmouth you get more of a chance to hang out with people less like you. </p>

<p>Anyway, its a hard call! But I would make the effort to vist Dartmouth. The only downside is that Dartmouth is now basically in summer session, when the campus is much more quiet than it usually is. I would check out the fiske guide, Princeton review, and a couple other books at your lical bookstore to learn more. Most of them are pretty good at summing up campus life.</p>

<p>i dont think dartmout is much more selective than AEM - i know it's one of the toughest majors to get in at Cornell. The acceptance rate last year was 20%, but I would expect this to be around 17-18% this year with the huge surge in applications. </p>

<p>"In business, you want to go with the horse with more momentum, and in this case its Dartmouth" Unfortunately, i dont see this, especially in comparison to the AEM program. Cornell as a whole is also the one with more momentum: 19,000 applications to the school two years ago is now over 28,000 today. Dartmouth does have the 'old boys' club thing going, but Cornell is racking in the most competitive class yet (with an even larger applicant pool expected for next year). </p>

<p>Another thing to consider: you can study AEM at Cornell but not at Dartmouth. You can study econ at both Dartmouth and at Cornell. </p>

<p>In the end, either choice will do (again). At least be lucky you have this choice.</p>

<p>Yeah gomestar I'm am grateful of having the choice.</p>

<p>AEM is the toughest major to get into directly, is my understanding. They only let in 100 a year, however about 70 transfer in(from other cornell majors) for each graduating year.</p>

<p>yes, since the program is so new they admit alot of transfers (the majority from other majors in Cornell) to fill up upper level classes.</p>

<p>However, my understanding is they're going to severely cut down on transfer students to AEM.</p>

<p>i vote dartmouth because...well, i'm a '10. what i liked about it was that while they did make greek life available, i did not feel it was overwhelming. i roomed with 2 girls during dimensions who were very driven and did not drink or do drugs, and met a lot of cool people who were the same way, which really appealed to me. another thing to consider: do you like the fast pace of the D-plan? you are taking a semester class in 10 weeks, basically. for me, it sounded perfect. i sat in on a chem 6 class, and i am terrible at chemistry as well as physics. however, i think i learned a lot because it was so accelerated and exciting, and the prof was a funny guy. this may be a more important aspect to some that for others, but it (as well as sophomore summer and the tucker foundation) helped me decide dartmouth over other similar schools.</p>

<p>to the OP, what are your thoughts on the D-plan?</p>

<p>"i vote dartmouth ....which really appealed to me." I imagine that's cornell too.</p>

<p>The fast pace is ok, my school now is quarters, we do 20 credits more a year than most schools. I think the D-plan is just ok, the flexibility is a postive, the fast pace would be a negative, I'd prefer a more laid back learning atmosphere.</p>

<p>I think this is one of the fairest posts I've seen on CC. There are many good points raised, but I think you can be in danger of "rationalizing" your decision too much, and you might never rest easy with your choice unless you simply go with your heart on this, not your intellect. There are pros and cons of both schools, as have been noted, and you won't go wrong either way. My observations, for what they are worth: Cornell is large and exciting and diverse, but it can feel impersonal to the shy or the quiet or the follower personality types. Dartmouth is smaller and more homogenous and will provide more access to your teachers, but you might want more stimulation than its LAC atmosphere offers.</p>

<p>" #13<br>
Untilted
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<p>Join Date: Jun 2005
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Posts: 1,114 "President of the college shakes every freshman's hand during orientation"</p>

<p>they do that at UVa too, both the president and the admission director, with 3000 first year students.
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<p>06-02-2006, 03:00 PM #14<br>
garrr!
Junior Member</p>

<p>Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 119 ok...but the OP isn't considering UVA...
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<p>I was trying to say that having the president shaking hands with students is nothing special and doesn't really say much about personal attention.</p>