<p>Asking for a friend</p>
<p>Desired major : Econ
Cornell education will cost 25k/year with fin aid
Dartmouth will cost full price (no aid).
Upenn will cost full price (not wharton).</p>
<p>She wants to go to Cornell, but she believes that Dartmouth has a "tighter" community with its smaller population, and also believes that Upenn's econ program is stronger</p>
<p>how does she have all these options already</p>
<p>i would disagree about the smaller community thing even though i dont go to dartmouth. The Cornell community is very strong. People seem to believe that even though Cornell is a big school it's very impersonal. Belive me, it's not. She will undoubtedly become very close friends with people on her floor and she will remaind friends with them for all four years. Cornell has incredible stuff to do for orientation week (week before classes start) to get freshmen acquainted with each other. Sororities are also abundant and these create an even closer atmosphere for those wanting more. There's also loads of stuff to do on campus, so it's not like half the place leaves on weekends leaving people stuck behind. </p>
<p>Also, Cornell has very strong economic programs. There was another thread someplace that asked about econ programs and Cornell poped up. She can take econ classes through arts and sciences, the ag school (which has an undergraduate business program), the school of industrial and labor relations, and the school of hotel administration. Each school has its own twist on economics which really gives students some fantastic options. I think the hotel school has some classes on the economics of profit for casinos (totally rad).</p>
<p>If money is a big factor, then Cornell hands-down. Otherwise she should choose Dartmouth because it sounds like that's what she wants. Penn has the best Econ program of the three (and the opportunity to transfer into Wharton more easily than from another university), but the difference between the three is small enough that it should really be based on preference and money.</p>
<p>Tell Dartmouth and Penn that Cornell's giving you X amount of aid. I've heard that Ivies (maybe other schools too, I'm not sure) are likely to up your aid to the same level as Cornell's in order to convince you to go there. They compete like crazy for students. Contact Dartmouth and Penn, see what you can do. I don't know how long it would take for you to find out if they would indeed increase your aid, but if you could find out quickly enough, you could then choose without money being a factor.</p>
<p>(That being said, I go to Penn so I can't help but root for you to go there; however, I couldn't give you any logical reasons for doing so, I'm a future English major.)</p>
<p>Good luck, and congrats!</p>
<p>Trouble is she did not apply for aid at Dartmouth and UPENN (she's an international and although Cornell is need-blind, Dartmouth and Upenn aren't so she did not apply fin aid for those two schools.)</p>
<p>Tell her she can have the extra money upon graduation and see where she goes.</p>
<p>Cornell is not need blind to international students. Even though Dartmouth and penn are not need blind if you are admitted they will meet 100% of your demonstrated need.</p>
<p>How did you calculate that Cornell would cost $25,000 with Financial aid. Was student acccepted ED as RD decisions have not gone out yet. IF she anticpates getting FA from Cornell, she would have very likely gotten aid from the other 2 schools also.</p>
<p>The OP posted
[quote]
Trouble is she did not apply for aid at Dartmouth and UPENN (she's an international and although Cornell is need-blind, Dartmouth and Upenn aren't so she did not apply fin aid for those two schools.)
[/quote]
FA for international students in the US is not that good. Most schools do not provide aid at all, although a few of the elite college (but not all) have gone need-blind for internationals. It might be worth it to check wtith Dartmouth and Penn, though. The deadline may have passed but colleges are reasonably slack about FA deadlines.</p>
<p>"People seem to believe that even though Cornell is a big school it's very impersonal. Belive me, it's not."</p>
<p>My experience there was different. I did, in fact, find it to be rather impersonal. Perhaps because gomestar you attend one of the smallest, dare I say most insular, colleges within the university, and maybe you see many of the same people in many of your classes? This would tend to foster a level of intimacy that the broader university does not really match to the same degree, I would suspect. I would readily believe that Dartmouth is a more intimate environment. My daughter attends an LAC, and her environment certainly seems more intimate than my undergraduate experience was.</p>
<p>"She will undoubtedly become very close friends with people on her floor and she will remaind friends with them for all four years."</p>
<p>Certainly true for me. My best friends in the whole world, to this day, are people from my dorm. I had dinner with two of them just a few weeks ago.</p>
<p>But this is a generic experience of most campus-based college students, wherever they attend. You wouldn't believe how tight my wife was with her dorm-mates from her college. Which was not Cornell.</p>
<p>monydad - this is true to some extent ... the weird thing is that my best friend (besides my girlfriend, an architecture major) is an engineering major that i met on the cycling team. though i do run into alot of people on campus that are also in ilr, the dorms are nicely distributed. It's nice to hang out with non ilr students. </p>
<p>Also, I wish (monydad) you could see how the campus has changed for the students in the past few years. The undergraduate schools are much more integrated ... I only take half my classes in ilr, the rest are in the other colleges within Cornell. Like i said, only a small percentage of my friends are also ilr students. President Lehman did a tremendous job unifying the campus and i believe this is an issue that the next president (Dr. Skorton) will continue to address. It seems like Cornell has been changing quite a bit over the past few years, and I'd like to see that continued.</p>
<p>also, it would be safe to assume that dartmouth may be more intimate than Cornell ... but the main point that i want to get across is that Cornell isnt as impersonal as i've expected it to be. It was a welcomed surprised.</p>
<p>Actually Cornell said in an email to her that they are need blind to international, but they just may not meet the 100% demonstrated need (she would not have applied for aid otherwise)</p>
<p>Well, Cornell and Penn are both need-blind to US, canadian, and mexican citizens and permanent residents- they are NOT need-blind to individuals of any other nationality. I'm not sure about Dartmouth, but I think this is the case with it as well. </p>
<p>SO.. either none of the three colleges are need-blind for her or ALL of them are</p>
<p>There are two issues here, need-blind during admissions and whether or not the college will meet your financial need if accepted. The following quotes are from the listed websites.</p>
<p>UPENN
<a href="http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/paying-international.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.sfs.upenn.edu/paying/paying-international.htm</a>
"The University is able to offer financial assistance to very few students who are not citizens or permanent residents of the U.S., Canada or Mexico. Therefore, most non-citizens should plan to meet expenses for their entire schooling before applying for admission. Because the offer of admission for non-citizens is directly linked to their ability to meet these expenses, candidates who can pay for their schooling are urged not to apply for Penn-sponsored assistance."</p>
<p>CORNELL
<a href="http://www.isso.cornell.edu/students/aid.php%5B/url%5D">http://www.isso.cornell.edu/students/aid.php</a>
"Decisions about financial aid for newly entering international undergraduates are made at the time of admission and are not changed for the duration of the undergraduate program. Cornell has a limited amount of funding available for international undergraduates, only 10 - 15 scholarships are awarded to students in each entering class. The scholarships are either partial or full, based on the selected student's need. It is not possible to apply for financial aid from Cornell after enrollment.
Note: Citizens and landed immigrants of Canada, citizens of Mexico, and US Permanent Residents DO qualify to apply for financial aid at Cornell and can obtain applications and information at the Financial Aid Office, 203 Day Hall."</p>
<p>DARTMOUTH
<a href="http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/admissions/international/%5B/url%5D">http://www.dartmouth.edu/apply/admissions/international/</a>
"Due to the limited resources available for financial aid, Dartmouth must take the financial resources of international applicants into account when making admissions decisions. Dartmouth provides financial aid to all admitted students who demonstrate financial need and will meet 100% of that demonstrated need."</p>
<p>TO SUM UP
UPenn does not give aid and if you need it, don't bother applying. Cornell is need-blind but you may not get any financial aid. Dartmouth is not need-blind, but if they do take you, then you will get whatever money you need.</p>
<p>I recommend that you look into FA at Cornell and Dartmouth. The deadlines tend to somewhat lax when it comes to finan aid.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Actually Cornell said in an email to her that they are need blind to international, but they just may not meet the 100% demonstrated need (she would not have applied for aid otherwise)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I find this hard to believe because the college knows that there is a gap in aid that your friend cannot meet, she will not be able to get her visa to study here. Usually the school will not accept an international student unless it knows that the full need will be met either by the school or by the student and their family</p>